Thread regarding State Farm Insurance layoffs

What would make claims work easier?

What is your opinion? Someone mentioned here that claims work would be much easier if the team environment would go away. I only somewhat agree.

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Post ID: @OP+1ibamAoW

33 replies (most recent on top)

I too thought that if only I could escape this team work environment, that my own inventory would become easy and clean to work, and that I wouldnt have to continually deal with incompetent co-workers broken claims.....boy was I wrong. All that stewardship means is that it all becomes your problem, no matter what other teams are there to support.

Just like everything related to SF relationship to claims workers, they quickly abuse what they can out of it as well, and you will likely end up with double or more (not kidding) than the amount they tell you.

It doesnt get better, the company seems to be designed from the core out to be as abusive to claims employees as theyll allow....and has been this way for at least 8 years, and it has only gotten worse not better with time.

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Post ID: @aohy+1ibamAoW

A new management team that actually had claims experience?

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Post ID: @8wwx+1ibamAoW

@2shd- sure you do. You do realize completing a college course is not the same as a degree😂Btw, I have 3 friends that Farm full time all with college degrees.

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Post ID: @2lmc+1ibamAoW

@2shd

You can’t even write a grammatically correct coherent sentence. You’re a prime example of the issue. SF hires trash and we all end up paying the price.

I’m guessing you are also the angry bigot posting about his checkbook/ledger, participation awards, and his inability to move on from SF despite claiming to be a retiree??

Cry some more. It is very amusing.

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Post ID: @2qav+1ibamAoW

Start giving the JEPs test again and weed out all of the people that can't multi task and do math.

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Post ID: @2klo+1ibamAoW

@2qnk. You are a fine example of the problem children with a degree. You are a very angry person who thinks they know it all and it not the least thankful to those who don't have degrees. You probably don't have enough grace to appreciate the food you push in your pie ho-e produced by someone without a college degree. I have three college degrees and by today's standards and today's education system, I'm ashamed. Don't give me the BS anyone should think their better than anyone else or deserves more than anyone else because they have an education. Some I know with college degrees can't touch their a$$ with their hands.

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Post ID: @2shd+1ibamAoW

@2uaw

The insecurity comes from the reality that their opportunities are limited due to their lack of education. They know it. We know it. The people at the top know it, which is why they know they can pay them close to nothing and get away with it….a practice that wouldn’t fly with a college educated workforce.

If SF moves toward only hiring people with college degrees that will be one less job for them. And it’s likely others in the industry would follow.

They can come up with all kinds of nonsense about all the Tom, Di-ks, and Harrys they know who became successful without a degree. It doesn’t matter. In today’s world people want to see the accomplishment BEFORE handing over the job and the salary.

All this stuff about SF should invest in more training and SF should allow people to get on before requiring a degree sounds like the rants of people who are afraid to compete in the world….and who have nothing to offer.

There are opportunities to get an education on SF’s dime now. What’s stopping the people who sit on here all day complaining from doing that?

The ONLY people I know taking advantage of the opportunity are those who already have a degree and decided to pursue a master’s degree. This goes right back to what I stated before about college educated people being more ambitious and outgoing. These are also the people getting the CPCU, CLU, etc.

The reason our workforce looks the way it does is because of SF’s current cr---y standards.

When I started in underwriting years ago EVERYONE on my team had a college degree. Some people had a master’s degrees.

The high school diploma holders were kept in the USA position. With a few exceptions, the work done by the two groups was like night and day. USAs had a high turnover rate. The only time you saw underwriters quit is if they decided to continue their education (one friend decided to go to law school) or a better financial opportunity came up. Otherwise, the same people are still working in that department today.

Claims biggest problem is the quality of the workforce. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

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Post ID: @2qnk+1ibamAoW

Some of you seem way insecure about not having degrees. Nobody here is saying people cannot be successful without one. But when an employer is reviewing resumes and conducting interviews, they’re going to gravitate toward those who have already accomplished something before those who just have potential to do so. That’s all.

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Post ID: @2uaw+1ibamAoW

What would make claims work easier?

If the new "kids" that hire in had the same motivation as the rest of us to get the work done, without expecting life to be as easy as it was when they kept getting participation trophies for everything they do.

This type of "priveledged" attitude was predicted when we saw them growing up and getting rewarded for every small accomplishment they achieved.

Time to learn about the real world.

Oh yes! I know the inner city house I bought (without air conditioning and wifi) only cost $20,000, but I was only making $9k at the time. And yes, my interest rate was 15% making the monthly costs more than rent. But I suffered through it.

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Post ID: @2kwi+1ibamAoW

All you great "educated" types! Laughing seriously. There are people out there without even a high school education can buy and sell you in a minute. I know many of them. One I knew owned three ranches one of which was 638 sections. He never finished high school and worked harder than any pencil pusher. Life is about choices. Freedom of choice is important. Anyone who thinks they are better and deserves more because of letters behind their name is a fool. Yes, I have three of them. Let every person have a chance to prove themselves. The results benefit all. Cancel anyone or look down on anyone regardless of education is ignorance.

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Post ID: @2ujf+1ibamAoW

@1ejp

There are many other ways to show that other than a college degree. It's certainly a good way, but the manager that hired me for call center work told me point blank, that my hiring was more because one of my examples of project work was organizing LARP events for 500+ people.

The college degree was a bonus. And half the people that I organized those events with never went to college because they couldn't afford to go or just had no interest in higher education.

And that's all I'm really saying. A degree in itself is one way to show that skillset, but it's not the only way and shouldn't be a dealbreaker.

People can always add on a degree later, with tuition reimbursement.

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Post ID: @1jyg+1ibamAoW

@1ejp

You beat me to it. You stated it exactly.

@1cvf

It also means you can retain information and think through problems. Everyone cannot write estimates for total loss fires.

CAT now has a high turnover rate because they chased all our seasoned people away with unrealistic demands, long hours, and long periods from home. They are being replaced by new hires who don’t have any claims experience, have never climbed a roof, have never written an estimate, and have never stepped foot on a college campus.

The company is wasting millions of dollars bringing in these low level new hires and training them only for them to split when they are dropped into the first major CAT where they are forced to handle Coverage A, B, and C.

I agree proper training is needed. However, there has to be an ability to retain information, and an ability to think critically in high stress situations. The people most likely to have these skills are college educated people.

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Post ID: @1ier+1ibamAoW

@1cvf “Look, my college degree means that I can talk about the relationship between the current office environment and Foucault's Panopticon at length, but that didn't help me one bit trying to help people dealing with the aftermath of a total loss housefire.”
——-Of course it did. Earning that degree showed that you could formulate a plan and carry it out to conclusion. Earning it also demonstrated that you could think through a solution, and communicate that solution in terms that the other party can understand.

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Post ID: @1ejp+1ibamAoW

@1twb

For the record, I have a college degree, and it has been invaluable in learning how to think and analyze and had absolutely nothing to do with insurance. But I know tons of well-spoken, thoughtful, intelligent people who would be fantastic in claims or other entry-level insurance positions for whom college is utterly out of reach for any number of reasons.

It's the skill set that's important, not the piece of paper. Which is why it's the training and development that needs a significant overhaul. As well as the defining metrics used to show success.

And yes, increase wages. You have more ability to screen for talent when you raise wages. Right now, for our entry level positions, you are basically getting people who need a job, any job, that pays the rent and puts food on the table. Not a career, and if they don't like it, they'll just move on to a different employer.

There's no investment on either side, so you know, state farm is getting what they pay for. Which is a shame, because entry level is usually customer service, and that's a skill most people think is easy, but is really specialized skill that is hard to master.

Look, my college degree means that I can talk about the relationship between the current office environment and Foucault's Panopticon at length, but that didn't help me one bit trying to help people dealing with the aftermath of a total loss housefire.

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Post ID: @1cvf+1ibamAoW

@1brk….Nobody left you with a tab. And retirees are not bitter. They’re disappointed that the company they built is now…whatever it is.
The problem is that you think somebody owes you a comfortable living. Your teachers gave you participation trophies and told you that you were special. An employer running a business is never going to pay you more than the dollar value you bring in. Good luck with that.

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Post ID: @1bsg+1ibamAoW

@1zmq

Thanks for the info.

I don’t know why people here are trying to argue education doesn’t make a difference in claims. The caliber of people we have now should tell us otherwise.

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Post ID: @1twb+1ibamAoW

@1kco….Sort of. Back in the day, Claim Reps we’re not required to have degrees. But applicants were told that “all the other applicants will have them, so…..”
Some were hired without degrees for various reasons like auto repair experience, building experience, or maybe just community ties in a small market where applicants were scarce.
But it was a higher quality workforce, a more respected position, and pay scale was accordingly different.

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Post ID: @1zmq+1ibamAoW

@1jxf

”Increase pay. Substantially. Even without a minimum education requirement (which are, indeed, overrated) showing that you value the position will generally mean more engaged employees.”

Nope. Not happening. People need to get real.

Why would SF pay people with a high school education more wages? Everyone knows these people are the bottom of the barrel in the workforce and can be replaced easily. That’s why they can’t demand higher wages. Not to mention a wage increase for these folks would drive up the wages of college educated people at the company.

There can’t be an increase in wages in claims until there is also an increase in the qualifications for the position to justify the wage increase.

From my understanding a college education used to be a qualification for claims adjusters with SF. When this requirement was dropped so too was the salary and the quality of the people SF was able to attract.

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Post ID: @1kco+1ibamAoW

It's been awhile since I was in claims, and even then, it was a specialty unit with an old school culture, so ymmv.

But from my friends in claims? Training. More time in training. Training that balances "learner led" with actually knowledgeable trainers. More hands-on/shadowing with mentors. The goal shouldn't be to shove people out to the floor as fast as possible with the "minimum viable product" mentality from agile. People need time to build the judgement skills needed for insurance work.

Less reliance on metrics and data for the sake of data. Meaningful file reviews that are more like after action reports on how to improve when you miss the mark rather than a dressing down.

Real development options besides degreed paths that you don't get time to do. Or at least dedicated development time at least weekly so you can do the degreed paths, designations, skills-based training, what have you.

Increase pay. Substantially. Even without a minimum education requirement (which are, indeed, overrated) showing that you value the position will generally mean more engaged employees.

Let people leave claims/Prioritize promotions. There's little incentive to develop your skills if there doesn't seem to be a way out or up.

Staff adequately enough so that production level folks have similar flexibility that the analysts have. People should be able to take time off with a minimum of fuss.

Or really, it can be narrowed down to this: Treat employees as people, rather than resources to exploit.

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Post ID: @1jxf+1ibamAoW

@1gta is a barely educated HS grad that was a lifelong estimator. He is jealous of all college grads and professional claims people in general. He confuses his own BS with brains. He should kiss the logo every morning for giving him his modest life.

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Post ID: @1ent+1ibamAoW

@1gta

Respect is earned…not given. Frankly, you might actually get some respect if you had it for others.

It’s amazing how all you old retirees can find a message board to complain about SF (a company were you presumably no longer work) but can’t manage to figure out how to use online banking and any number of modern banking features to monitor and control your money.

Again, this is a YOU problem. Too many of you old cats are bitter, bu-t hurt about being FORCED to retire, and feel dejected that the wheels kept spinning with SF without your presence.

You’re too busy trying to one-up and compete with people half your age on this forum to even notice how re--rded you look bragging about using a checkbook and ledger in the year 2022.

Your elders left you with a pension, infrastructure, a better environment, jobs, a functional government etc. You left your children and grandchildren with the tab for your destruction. Get over your BS boomer.

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Post ID: @1brk+1ibamAoW

I sure as heck didn't get older by being d-mb with my money. I am comfortably retired plus I always respected those that were older than me and never referred to elders as a problem. Never have and never will trust anyone with my money except me. BTW it hasn't been 30 days and I caught my bank on an incorrect balance in my favor. Hummm. So the old way works.

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Post ID: @1gta+1ibamAoW

@1jqs

This ain’t 1920 something dear. We need you to step into the year 2022.

In this world most people are not writing checks. In fact, most banks don’t even issue them anymore unless requested.

If you can’t keep track of your money without a ledger and a checkbook in this day and age it’s safe to say YOU are the problem…rather than modern college graduates.

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Post ID: @1aaa+1ibamAoW

If you don't write checks and don't keep a ledger, how the heck do you know your balance... oh! It's because the computer says. That shows how those college students are so analytical right?

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Post ID: @1jqs+1ibamAoW

@1hqx

Probably because no one is writing checks anymore. You’re showing your age.

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Post ID: @1cpy+1ibamAoW

College graduates today have better analytical skills......THAT'S LAUGHABLE. Most can't balance a checkbook. Most are on BNPL.

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Post ID: @1hqx+1ibamAoW

@1myy

Here is the difference between someone who had the aptitude to complete college and someone who did not:

You wrote, “ but with regards to my previous comment to disparage people as “id--ts” because they don’t have a 4 year BA is about the most preposterous generalization I’ve ever heard.”

Here is what I ACTUALLY wrote….

“ SF needs to require a bachelor’s degree for all claims positions and the pay for all positions needs to be raised with this educational requirement. This will help weed out some of the id--ts in the department, and will help with the turnover issue.

Do you see the difference between what I wrote and what you typed?

I’m guessing you’ll say because you were in your feelings you read what you wanted to read.

College educated people have better analytical skills.

These skills are desperately needed in claims.

There are situations faced in claims that require one to have good logic and reasoning skills. These are two skills missing in the majority of in-office workers I have spoken with and tried to train. A lot of things that should be basic common sense don’t stick either.

Here is an example of what I’m talking about….

An in-office rep sent a claim to the field for back up of sewer. The customer did not have the endorsement on his policy for back up of sewer and therefore there is no coverage for the claim.

When I contacted the rep to ask why she sent it to the field she stated so someone can inspect and write an estimate.

I do not for one second believe this is something that would have been missed by someone with a college education. In fact, I’m willing to bet a college educated rep would have checked for coverage FIRST.

Then there is the reality that college educated people tend to have more drive for a career and security than those lacking an education. They tend to take their jobs more seriously.

These folks didn’t go to college to simply sit in a lower position for years. Most desire to move up at some point, and if that opportunity doesn’t present itself at their present company they are easily picked off by other companies. If that means getting an additional degree or taking continuing education classes then so be it.

These are the people SF should find the MOST attractive for hiring because it will help grow the company in the right direction. I personally would not want anyone on my team who doesn’t want better for him/herself. An entry level position should be viewed as just that. An educated workforce is a better and more ambitious workforce.

The average person who hasn’t sought more than a high school diploma (or less) doesn’t usually share this type of ambition. Many have accepted their station in life and don’t plan to do much of anything to better it…especially as they age and find themselves “stuck” in life. These are likely the people complaining about being micromanaged.

It never dawns on them that in SOME cases dealing with them is a lot like dealing with a child. You have to watch almost everything they do because they are usually doing it wrong, cutting corners, causing extra work for others, and other counterproductive nonsense.

This list can go on and on.

You may think my way of thinking is antiquated, but it’s those who think like me signing your paychecks and determining your future at the company.

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Post ID: @1rpx+1ibamAoW

@huf please enlighten me as to how a 4 year BA in an unrelated field of study in some which way, shape, or form a “better educated workforce.” I’m not coming here complaining about being micromanaged or belittled like so many on other previous threads.

You can question my integrity all you’d like if that helps you justify your point, I’ve got thicker skin than you probably realize.

Since coming to SF some years ago I have thrived on proving people wrong. Came in as a PA2 and started grinding. My boss told me “you’ll never make prof/tech without a BA, you’ll need to further your education.” Truth of the matter is I never thrived in the classroom. Much like others I benefit from meaningful, on the job training that is not condensed and remanded to narrow-sighted modules that could never prepare you for the litany of issues that one may experience in claims. I continued to work, hone my skill set, and wouldn’t you know I did manage to attain that prof/tech role without that higher education that everyone thought was the key.

SF does attract it’s fair share of low level employees, that’s something we can agree on, but with regards to my previous comment to disparage people as “id--ts” because they don’t have a 4 year BA is about the most preposterous generalization I’ve ever heard.

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Post ID: @1myy+1ibamAoW

@qtr

Anybody can come on here and claim to be a “top performer.” So, excuse me if I don’t believe you. It’s people like you who are on here complaining about being micromanaged etc while bringing nothing to the table. No skills. No education. He-l, not even any insurance education in most cases.

A better educated workforce doesn’t need to be micromanaged. These folks are worth their weight in gold if they are treated right and compensated accordingly.

The reality is SF keeps attracting low level employees because the standards for the position are low level. I’m sorry if this hurts your feelings, but it is the truth. You’re not going to get quality most of the time from people who otherwise would only qualify as stock clerks and cashiers. Their skill sets don’t produce the results, and this has crippled the entire department.

The insurance industry is stable and there will always be work in departments like claims. I believe college educated folks would take up these jobs if the pay matched their education. As it stands today most educated professionals aren’t working in their fields.

You don’t get Gucci shopping at Walmart. If SF wants to attract quality there needs to be a change in pay and requirements for the role.

And unfortunately, people like yourself will simply get left behind. You’ll either adapt by building up your education/skill set or you’ll find yourself riding the struggle bus in the game of life.

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Post ID: @huf+1ibamAoW

@tin: Top performer on my team, subject matter resource in multiple fields within my role, and minimal rework. Oh but because I don’t have a 4 year BA I’m somehow a miscreant of whom is undeserving of their role? Keep up with that antiquated way of thinking because the number of people attaining bachelors to wind up in the insurance industry is painfully low. Proper training and pay sure, but trying to disparage an entire class of people based on their education discredits your entire statement, and for all intents and purposes makes you sound like an ill-mannered jack off.

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Post ID: @qtr+1ibamAoW

SF needs to require a bachelor’s degree for all claims positions and the pay for all positions needs to be raised with this educational requirement. This will help weed out some of the id--ts in the department, and will help with the turnover issue.

Lower the turnover issue, and the overall stress on employees will somewhat go down as well. Work can be evenly spread and work life balance will become the norm.

If the above suggestion fails I suggest getting rid of ECRs and all current in office reps and replacing them with H1B visas from India. They will work cheaper, harder, and they will likely be far more in line with SF’s current cost cutting mission while not losing productivity. They already come to the table with an education, and SF will get far more out of them than they get from current in-office people. It’s likely the turnover rate will decrease or even cease with this option as well. Get them licensed, trained, and let them takeover the entire in office environment.

Claims is not hard per se. The issue is the turnover rate, lack of proper training, pay, and low hiring requirements.

SF needs to stop expecting good accurate work and high productivity while hiring no skill, improperly trained, below average, high school/GED recipients and paying low wages.

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Post ID: @tin+1ibamAoW

At the Exp level it should be team. Once it hits injury, property complex or PIP/MPC it should be stewardship, it is ownership with rollover calls when the assigned CS is not available. The problem is the consultants we keep paying to tell us how to run our business are still high on team environment and call center principles. In theory, it should work but it is always staffed to razor thin margins and the minute you have a few extra callouts the system breaks down.

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Post ID: @beb+1ibamAoW

Claim ownership or stewardship is helpful in that it can be tracked easier. You know how much inventory a handler has, and what claims they have worked. This works well when you can count on your handlers to keep moving claims forward. The downside is if that handler is out, those claims most likely don’t get worked.

The team environment is helpful if you can’t count on consistent claim handling. So lots of people have their hands in the claim. This is useful if your section has high turnover or is very task orientated. The downside is no one is responsible for anything.

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Post ID: @xvc+1ibamAoW

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