Thread regarding Twitter layoffs

Still valid

https://youtu.be/OeoBWzIRuic

That sounds like Neo-politan ice cream

That's right @Dahn, it's the damned billionaires (and their captive politicians) who are the problem.

It's not our fellow workers, trying to make a better life for themselves. We should act in solidarity with them and make it harder to exploit them.

@One World, but history and power make a difference. It's one thing to be working class and want a place in line. It's another thing to be a billionaire who uses immigrants as cheaper more controllable labor pool--instead of paying taxes and nurturing the American working class.

Great response Anonymous Coward (it's your old pal Famous Coward).

Kudos for calling out Tata and Infosys. There ARE villians in this system, but it's not your foreign born colleagues. The author of the argle-bargle below was so close to getting to that conclusion.

My family has been on the part of the N. American continent that is now the USA for a minute. Long enough that I suspect and am ashamed that some of them undoubtedly sought to exclude the Irish, the Bohemians, the Italians, and others. They always felt they had "valid reasons" (e.g. Typhoid Mary, Haymarket Riots, Sacco and Vanzeti, etc.) There's always been media and politicians (and plutocrats) willing to pander to them.

It's always been about bigotry, it's always been wrong.

@OneWorld Exactly. Your birth right gives you the right to come to another country and take another person's job. Your birth right is what the billionaire class uses to pay H1Bs less for the same work, therefore making your servitude written on paper. Your birth right took talent from your country, which made your country worse, but the U.S. not any better but for the billionaires.

Man, this whole topic is the 3rd rail of Knowledge Work politics... But here's my $0.02 on a rainy Saturday afternoon.

America exists because it is a nation of Immigrants, moreso than any other country in history. People WANT to come here and build a new life. Except for some notable, tragic exceptions (slavery, refugees from wars which we started), folks from all over the world (not just former colonies) have self-selected to come here It's what makes this country strong and - dare I write it - exceptional. We'd be incredibly stupid to cut that pipeline off.

At the same time, our immigration system is horribly broken and is regularly abused by both the immigrants and us natives. I won't go into examples except to say truly think about how that $2 head of lettuce at the grocery store got into your refrigerator. However, the H1B program is actually NOT abused, at least relatively speaking. Simply put, Hiring an H1B worker is a tremendous pain-in-the-keister - there are quotas per-company, there are a ton of HR and USCIS hoops to jump thru, etc. You, the employer must prove that you are unable to hire an equivalent US-native worker, and that you will pay same salary to the H1B worker. Yes, there are dodges around those rules, but generally not worth it. The REAL abuse of the system is the L1A and L1B programs, intra-company transfers. That's were you see companies bring in employees from their "foreign branch office" (often just a shell) to literally take your job. Worse yet when they are multi-national consultants, and yes, I will name names - Tata Consulting, Infosys, ant their ilk. And it's no picnic for the actual "consultants" being sent over, they basically live in indentured servitude for 6 months or a year then get kicked back home. Anyway, it's a very broken system.

Back to H1B. As the original poster pointed out, you have to really know your stuff to get an H1B visa. One of the solutions to our immigration crisis that constantly being bandied about is - including by our recent occupant of the White House - is that we have skills-based immigration. Like in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, to name a few. Well, it's that what H1B visa is doing, in a ham-handed way? I'd argue that we are getting the advantage of the best and brightest coming to work here. And treating them quite shabbily, at least Canada, etc, you know you are on a path for citizenship. Here you are - again - essentially an indentured servant.

Summing up, I'm not saying that all H1B folks are paragons of virtue, untapped geniuses, etc. Many are, many are not. And the entire system is ripe for abuse from all sides. But if you want to do something about it, then engage yourself - write to your congress-creature, get out and vote. speak up at work, speak with your H1B colleagues, ask "Why is there no-one hireable for this position here in the US?," and truly open your mind. Honestly, there are no easy answers, but start your actions with the thought - We ARE a nation of Immigrants.

@Dahn, I'm not in charge of hiring at Twitter

At places where I was responsible for hiring I was a vocal supporter of diversity in hiring.

What's your point?

Oh, and for the record I'm a White American Male and an was an actual participant in the working class (Teamster) before going to college later in life. I'm not an "armchair prole" like I suspect you are.

@OneWorld, How many Native American folks work at Twitter? African Americans? Working class women who have lived in the US more than three generations? How do you explain that?

Imma just going to close with:

The fact that you may have won the birth lottery does not make you better or more deserving of a good life than others.

Namaste

@2kze+1kbBCEXB

Your post is full of modern day nonsense spewed by the ignorant. Good managers and bad managers can be found everywhere. When you spot off about “WAM”, you telegraph your own ignorance

@2kze Who is 'innovating,' delivering a quality product, etc? It's not your manager, director, VP, etc. Just look at their calendar. They're stuck in meetings and 'strategizing.' It's the low level worker who delivers, and the management knows this. Therefore, the management move the grifters up while keeping competent people at the bottom. No company would function if the people who actually worked moved up. There are managers who do actual work, but they are PEs more than managers. If someone has the desire to move up, it's a tell of their bootlicking and grifting ability.

You've had all bad white managers, and I've had all bad non white managers. You know lazy white workers, and I know lazy non white workers. And that's the case everywhere. What does that mean? This means that H1Bs and foreign workers have added no value other than proving cheap labor source for the feudal overlords.

@2xzd+1

People move up the ranks not because of their "technical skills" but based on how well they strategize, innovate, deliver quality product and act as force multipliers in management roles.

I know a couple of non-native people who exhibit the toxic behaviors you mention, and for the most part their careers have stalled. I know of a far higher % of White American Males (WAMs) who exhibit those behaviors who continue to fail up, often with the support of equally toxic WAMs above them.

The people I came up with were amazing technically and they delivered. More importantly the supported and developed the people on their teams. Those people would follow them anywhere (and many have followed them to new departments or companies).

My worst bosses were all WAMs. The ones who took credit for your work and left you hanging out to dry. I've also seen that behavior on the part of many WAMs in organizations I've worked in and with.

My best bosses were from (gender) in descending order:
India (m)
China (f)
China (m)
Egypt (m)
America (f)

I saw them out perform their WAM peers, be subjected to both subtle and overt bigoted hostility on the part of WAMs and WAFs (Karens). They had to be twice as good to get promotions or recognition, and they were!

In terms of senior leadership I've never had a foreign born leader myself above SVP. I've had a couple WAM/F that I respected but for the most part I've seen a parade of the Peter Principal.

They have titles like CTO/CIO, EVP, SVP, etc.

People move up the ranks not because of their technical skills, but how much they can manipulate and bootlick. These people were hand held by their non H1B peers, took credit for other people's work, and use their caste/party connections to move up the ranks. They then became managers, gave interviewers two Leetcode questions to solve in 40 minutes, concluded they couldn't find any skilled local candidates, complained to higher up there isn't enough skilled labor in the U.S. and we need to offshore/hire skilled H1Bs.

I’d rather be Musahar, despite 3% overall literacy rate, than be miserable.

Good riddance

@One World, that sounds like a privileged neoliberal position. One that means we don't have to educate the people who are already in the US. One that assumes that the natural talent isn't already here. Draining the resources of other nations and acting as a safety valve for others. Much of it the result of neocolonialism. Letting people jump in line, because somehow they are better. Pitting the entire global labor pool against the US working class. Letting the savage inequalities in the system remain. Ignoring the injustice across the US. Classic divide and conquer.