Thread regarding Sabre Holdings layoffs

Change in contracts for all KRK employees

Starting Monday all regular KRK employees are forced to sign a contract of employment amendment. It is a 20 page document stating couple of interesting things. First of all after terminating the contract with Sabre you are not allowed to participate - directly or indirectly - in recruitment of current Sabre employees. Sabre is allowed to reach out to you via mail asking what is your current employment and what are your future employment plans. By the contract you are obligated to reply to such inquiry. Also, you are obligated to help troubleshoot undocumented parts of the code that you committed. Those obligations expire 2 years after you leave Sabre. Privacy policy also changes. You have to agree that Sabre can monitor your corporate laptop by any means possible. This includes recording of audio and video when you work from home or you use the laptop outside of the office or outside of working hours. You have 2 options. Either sign this amendment and collect merit (sic!) or sign a decline form which results in immediate contract termination. You have to sign the amendment at the HR department and you are not allowed to take this document for 3rd party legal consulting prior to signing. Quite a bummer isn't it?

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Post ID: @OP+Pz7cuWI

75 replies (most recent on top)

@1.1k shares I can say our thread is shared more than your average cat video.

i guess recruiters are getting notified, hence all recruiting pitches.

now this is funny, not sad any more.

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Post ID: @bhdt+Pz7cuWI

Do you already know who from HR/mgmt is going to lose their job for letting this kind of cr...p become public?

This has become a subject of jokes in most of IT companies in PL. Congratulations on working hard to deserve another "best place to work".

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Post ID: @alyf+Pz7cuWI

It may be a good time to change the work environment ? We encourage you to join 4FinanceIT in Warsaw or in Torun. Our currently open vacancies can be found here: https://4finance.recruiterbox.com/

We are waiting for you!

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Post ID: @aqcd+Pz7cuWI

50k views - how much did this sh-- cost sabre in lost reputation???

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Post ID: @aqdq+Pz7cuWI

If you're sick of these ridiculous practices, I encourage you to join EPAM in Krakow. We'll welcomed you warmly! Our currently open vacancies can be found here:

https://careers.epam-poland.pl/careers/job-listings?sort=best_match&query=&department=all&city=Krakow&country=Poland

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Post ID: @8dpg+Pz7cuWI

There is a rumor that the contract in it's current form has been cancelled.

I am not sure if this is just a tactics for watering down the pushback the workers have been demonstrating. The social media is flodded with negative messages Sabre and KRK...

F--- #PrivateEquity - what a bunch of lying bastards.

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Post ID: @7eds+Pz7cuWI

If you want corporations to stop this you need to get this onto local, national, and international news now. Make shareholders aware that this hurts their holdings and they will change it. A corporation is nothing without its employees.

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Post ID: @7nmw+Pz7cuWI

Motorola - LOL It is not better :). They did similar thing a couple of years earlier and continue. I still have your contract. Ok, there's no info about recording, but as long as it's legal and employee is informed cards are open imo.

In the end people are infuriated and don't even check whether this contract is legal in Poland. Motorola's one wasn't. US bsT&* transferred to the rest countries. Three lawyers were asked for opinion.

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Post ID: @7nlw+Pz7cuWI

If company forbits you to work for competition for certain time it must pay you compensation. If not specified in contract you should receive 25% of your sallery for the whole period. Paid ones or monthly. Art 101 $3 of Labor Code

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Post ID: @7yyw+Pz7cuWI

Just an FYI: In Poland, they cannot legally force you to be on a 2 year retainer without compensating you for this. So, they'd have to pay up which I highly doubt they are willing to do. Not sure about the States, it sounds unreasonable but it may be legal over there.

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Post ID: @7umz+Pz7cuWI

Is all of this even legal in the EU?

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Post ID: @7gcq+Pz7cuWI

700+ shares - you've got to be kidding me... went viral, good job Sabre - such a good way to build the brand

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Post ID: @7tub+Pz7cuWI

I feel soooo gooood I left this creepy company! :)

Don't sign it guys, they cant fire the whole company :) and look for a better workplace than this *&%#%$.

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Post ID: @6jlq+Pz7cuWI

If Sabre reaches out to you via email to ask about anything and you no longer work for them and you signed the contract, you are required to reply.

Your reply can be "No comment" or anything at all. That is afterall, a reply.

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Post ID: @6xrx+Pz7cuWI

Ok, sory za ścianę tekstu, ale zamierzam wyjaśnić dlaczego mój komentarz brzmiałby "b---s---"

Starting Monday all regular KRK employees are forced to sign a contract of employment amendment. - jeżeli "forced to sign" oznacza że dostałem umowę do przeczytania do domu w dwóch kopiach (jedna dla prawnika gdybym chciał skonsultować) i mogę ją podpisać najpóźniej do końca roku

It is a 20 page document stating couple of interesting things. - ma 21 stron, nie 20

First of all after terminating the contract with Sabre you are not allowed to participate - directly or indirectly - in recruitment of current Sabre employees. - zgadza się, nie wolno Ci kraść pracowników ani klientów sabre, ani przekazywać poufnych informacji sabre swojemu następnemu pracodawcy przez pierwsze 2 lata p--puszczeniu sabre

Sabre is allowed to reach out to you via mail asking what is your current employment and what are your future employment plans. By the contract you are obligated to reply to such inquiry. - nie ma takiego punktu, wiem, spędziłem weekend czytając uważnie tą umowę

Also, you are obligated to help troubleshoot undocumented parts of the code that you committed. - zabawne, bo nie piszą że na początku tego punktu jest wyraźnie dopisane że oddajesz 100% praw autorskich do wszystkiego co napisałeś w pracy Sabre, ale jeśli jakimś cudem zachowasz prawa autorskie do czegoś co zrobiłeś dla Sabre, to wtedy mogą żądać od ciebie wsparcia

Those obligations expire 2 years after you leave Sabre. - tak, jak cała ta umowa

Privacy policy also changes. You have to agree that Sabre can monitor your corporate laptop by any means possible. This includes recording of audio and video when you work from home or you use the laptop outside of the office or outside of working hours. - a dokładnie "używasz naszego wi-fi, naszego vpn i my płacimy za twój dostęp do internetu w pracy, na pracowniczym laptopie mamy kilka aplikacji których używamy między innymi do zdalnej instalacji aktualizacji do office, nie możesz nas pozwać za fakt że można ich też użyć do szpiegowania cię

You have 2 options. Either sign this amendment and collect merit (sic!) or sign a decline form which results in immediate contract termination. - HR zrobiło z siebie idiotów podając tą umowę razem z podwyżkami, ponieważ myśleli że ludziom będzie wygodniej przyjść do HR raz zamiast dwa razy... tymczasem tą umowę bierzesz do domu i możesz jej nawet nie podpisać, nie jest obowiązkowa ani związana z umową o pracę, HR ma generalnie zrobić Q&A na temat tej umowy w najbliższym czasie przez ilość nieporozumień jaka wynikła

You have to sign the amendment at the HR department and you are not allowed to take this document for 3rd party legal consulting prior to signing. - jeśli chcesz go podpisać, musisz to zrobić przed końcem roku, a dla prawnika masz kopię...

HR się nie popisało. Po pierwsze chcieli żeby ludziom wystarczyło pójść do nich raz, więc dali te umowy razem z meritem (co wywołało burzę nieporozumień) do tego tego dnia zepsuł im się czytnik kart przy drzwiach i przed drzwiami do HR musiała stać ochrona i sprawdzać czy wchodzący/wychodzący są pracownikami firmy, co wywołało drugie tyle nieporozumień. Dziw że autor tego artykułu nie napisał jeszcze, że "ochrona stała przy drzwiach i nie wypuszczała dopóki nie podpiszesz". Obstawiam iż powodem dla którego nie jest to obowiązkowa umowa jest fakt, że jesteśmy filią chronioną polskim prawem i amerykańskie umowy często nie są u nas legalne. No ale czego oczekiwać po USA, kraju gdzie firma ma prawa a pracownik obowiązki...

Okay, so now for English readers and all those Americans, who I really pity for their employment laws - this article is mostly b---s--- fuelled by misinformation and misconceptions. We are not forced to sign it in any way, we got a special copy for a lawyer (well, original s still marked "do not loose it") and most of problems is because:

a) HR thought it would be better to give it together with merit, so employees will have to come to them once instead of twice

b) door to HR was broken and security guys had to stand by it and check if each person is Sabre employee

c) some of points are stretching a bit polish law (if not breaking it outright)

we have time to decide until December if we sign it or not. For me it's a question of whether I will allow that USA laws (where company has rights and employee has obligations) will apply to me or not.

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Post ID: @6flh+Pz7cuWI

I guess we'll end up like Ryanair - the executive certainly have not learned the lesson there...

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Post ID: @6mta+Pz7cuWI

I see 20k views here but nobody on the main page where a ton of other posts reside? Why is this?

You can see the main Sabre page here at www.thelayoff.com/sabre-holdings or just go via the link &sabre-holdings

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Post ID: @6eli+Pz7cuWI

oh

good thing I left this ship of fools

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Post ID: @6jns+Pz7cuWI

Read this post https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/03/28/ndas-and-contracts-that-you-should-never-sign/

It is from 2000 and things are still valid.. The HR and some executives still haven't learned anything.

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Post ID: @5lti+Pz7cuWI

If we leave the company over this then that will be an example to all other companies to never try the same practice unless they want all their employees to quit too.

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Post ID: @5jgl+Pz7cuWI

We cannot simply leave the company and leave things as they are. If we do so, other corporations will start to follow the same practice.

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Post ID: @5iqp+Pz7cuWI

They should not worry about accidentally laying off people in KRK that should not be laid off. Thanks to this, all those people worth anything will quit before January anyway and the only ones left will be the ones that should be laid off. So they can just lay off those useless people that remain and close the entire KRK office. Yet another round of layoffs in DFW but without severance this time. Everyone worth anything in DFW quits before January too. Then they move all that KRK and DFW headcount to BLR instead. Genius plan! Sabre is finished but huge cost savings! Multimillion $ bonuses all around for C-level executives and Sabre bankrupt before 2019.

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Post ID: @4afe+Pz7cuWI

Don't forget to take two minutes to post a Glassdoor review. HR had an army of interns posting fake review to prop up the ratings. CEO has a very low score justifiably on there already.

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Post ID: @4jdi+Pz7cuWI

You have to understand this from the law standpoint:

  1. In DFW the livestock has more rights than Sabre employees, this is due to pro employer laws of Texas state. Employers biggest fear is discrimination, and equal employment law-which is Federal law.

  2. In KRK employees have a lot of rights (unlike DFW), but if you sign the new agreement it strips you away of all your rights.

  3. I am not sure about BLR.

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Post ID: @4laq+Pz7cuWI

They are going to lay off workers probably in January (like it was three years ago in KRK) and therefore they need this document before the end of December. They are afraid that by mistake they could lay off people who should not be laid off.

This document is a leash on the laid-off workers and a great protection for the company in all possible circumstances. By signing the document, you join a group of people who will/may be laid off first.

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Post ID: @4bvl+Pz7cuWI

DFW makes a very big mistake with this There is many many other choices in KRK Do DFW think they own KRK They do not We will never sign this

http://krakowit.pbworks.com/w/page/5507981/FrontPage

Cześć

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Post ID: @4sdn+Pz7cuWI

The person responsible for this is "too fun" in DFW

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Post ID: @4vrd+Pz7cuWI

@Pz7cuWI-4quv this entire thing should be stopped at HR level. The document seems to be just translated - not verified by someone who knows polish law - someone assumed that we will simply sign it - that we are idiots. You are telling us that we are afraid to change the job or we are not doing it because we are sh--g workers. Well I don't know what others think but right now I think that our HR is a piece of sh---. All Krakow IT companies will know about whole thing in a week or two - I'm waiting for another banner outside "maybe you would like to change the job" then we will hear again rumors that recruitment team has problem with recruiting and who will be responsible for it? Developers?

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Post ID: @4jfa+Pz7cuWI

I am in HR myself. There is lots of great companies in Krakow (outsourcing ones start ups government ones) why would you cry about being fired if you are excellent in your job ? OR OR perhaps you s--- at what you doing in this case you want to stay in your comfortable position and just take money for 70% of productivity right ? any way as in my 9 years of experience its a joke for me to read those posts. Guys ! get yourself better jobs SABRE is not your world right ?

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Post ID: @4quv+Pz7cuWI

Information on the situation in company is spreading across whole Krakow. My friend (Software Developer) who never worked for Sabre contacted me today and asked if it’s true and if I had to sign the document too.

Because of this document as a company we gain nothing, but we lost a lot. Sabre lost it’s reputation. Employees are angry. Motivation is close to zero. Document is targeted on developers, but many developers will never sign it because you would have to be an idiot to sign it.

I like my job. I like what I’m doing for Sabre and I was hoping to stay here for long. Now I feel like someone stabbed me in the back.

I hope that there will be consequences for those responsible for all this situation. I hope they will lose their jobs.

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Post ID: @3yye+Pz7cuWI

How did it go with creating a union i KRK? Is there already one for Sabre employees in KRK and is it legal?

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Post ID: @3fpi+Pz7cuWI

There will be team meetings today on MVD.. hmmm

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Post ID: @3oob+Pz7cuWI

Exactly, no one can force you to work for free, especially after termination. They are hoping you will not charge them for your time.

-Full cooperation with Sabre even after termination of employment

Only if you are paid for that time, a price you determine yourself

-Paying for any damage in case of intellectual rights lawsuit

This is company responsibility

-Responding to Sabre inquires about current employment and future employment plans up to 24 months after termination of employment

Does not say what your response has to be. Your response can be "No Comment".

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Post ID: @3yfm+Pz7cuWI

If they come to me after layoff I say to them my hourly rate is $300US minimum 3 hours pay per conversation.

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Post ID: @3tee+Pz7cuWI

In regard to economics, people are not machines on an assembly line. How do you measure one person's productivity over another based on country of origin's going rate? True some cowboy coders can churn out some code quickly, but the ramifications on quality and maintainance will bite you long after they are gone.

A skilled developer doing things according to best practices costs money. Innovation costs money. Quality costs money. You want to be the best, pay for the best. This is something HR cannot understand as the are glorified car salesmen and especially recruiters.

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Post ID: @3kmy+Pz7cuWI

Economics.

Worker in KRK have many right. Worker in DFW and BLR not have many right.

Median salary of IT developer in BLR is $7,000.

Median salary of IT developer in KRK is $24,000.

Median salary of IT developer in DFW is $72,000.

Team of 3 in KRK more productivity than 1 in DFW?

Team of 3 in BLR more productivity than 1 in KRK?

Team of 10 in BLR more productivity than 1 in DFW?

Accountant say yes.

You make more than median? I hope you are productive then.

Dude, you can't do math like this ? consider everything like housing,medicare,insurance,food etc in each place(DFW,BLR,KRW) and come to your productivity conclusion!

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Post ID: @3gbb+Pz7cuWI

Economics.

Worker in KRK have many right. Worker in DFW and BLR not have many right.

Median salary of IT developer in BLR is $7,000.

Median salary of IT developer in KRK is $24,000.

Median salary of IT developer in DFW is $72,000.

Team of 3 in KRK more productivity than 1 in DFW?

Team of 3 in BLR more productivity than 1 in KRK?

Team of 10 in BLR more productivity than 1 in DFW?

Accountant say yes.

You make more than median? I hope you are productive then.

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Post ID: @3jxa+Pz7cuWI

I cant speak for all employees in the US, but in Southlake when I joined in 2010, those same types of clauses were in the employment papers I had to sign. I remember the parts about being contacted after I left (I don't remember if it was year or two). Also had to say I wouldn't go to work for a competitor for a year, and would not try to recruit others from Sabre to go somewhere else for up to a year. I would imagine not working for a competitor is unenforceable if Sabre choses to lay you off.

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Post ID: @3xju+Pz7cuWI

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