Thread regarding Oracle Corp. layoffs

2018 Layoff Schedule - Important Read

High level rumors are circulating, Group Vice President (GVP) level rumors. These are not confirmed, but I am posting what I have heard here. Next major round of layoffs are slated for March 1st 2018. Most of this will be hardware related. Oracle is divesting itself of all hardware related development, and production will be scaled back to match only existing customer demand. The impacted groups will be sales, support and development. This includes all engineered systems.

There will be some small layoffs before March 1st but the big one for HW is slated for that round.

The final round is a major reduction in force on the field sales team in June 2018. All field sales will be rolled into the Oracle digital call centers coming online. Its no secret that one man is responsible for the Sales shakeup. MH began the process by recruiting and hiring replacements in 2010 and 2011. His final vision will be realized this summer with the opening of several new Oracle Digital campuses.

Its important to realize that all field Sales will be let go including the "technical talent" this means all field sales engineers and ECAs (Enterprise Cloud Architects) pillar teams will be given a severance package. The entire Oracle sales team, and sales engineers and architects will only operate out of the Oracle Digital call centers. You may have already noticed new people on your calls with duplicate responsibilities to your own.

Two major considerations lend credence to the new sales strategy. With the advent of cloud, and the rapid adoption of opensource, the old days of influencing a CIO or a high level executive to make a decision to purchase multi million dollar enterprise off the shelf software is gone. Developers now have access to the infrastructure and software they need to rapidly develop a cost effective strategy. This realization is carefully documented in the 50 page book "The new King Makers"

Agile development and devops projects really work and it is changing the sales landscape. The cheese has moved and so has your job. It is time to realize this fact. Developers are now capable of making the decisions and implementing working cost effective solutions with opensource and cloud. The decline in enterprise level software and solutions is rapid and happening right now.

What is lacking in the new strategy (of moving all sales into Oracle Digital) is the ability to really understand and solve the customers problems. Helping Clients Succeed is fundamental to the success of any business, and this understanding has been lost at Oracle. With out people engaged onsite, sitting with the developers and helping them solve problems, Oracle products will not be selected. This is why it will be painfully obvious that the new strategy was a bad one. Oracle sells the large expensive enterprise software, and its current focus is not on helping the customer. The current focus is on shifting the expensive software to the cloud and reducing costs. All of this is well documented in the Oracle sales training and can be obtained by the link below.

Good luck to all of you. Its not a time to be angry. Its a time to prepare for the future. Be grateful that you are getting a severance package. Not all companies handle this the way Oracle has. Some handle layoffs better and many handle it far worse.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu
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73 replies (most recent on top)

Even the Oracle Direct hubs aren’t working out. Just “riffed” everyone in SMB at the Minneapolis and Redwood Shores hub. Now SMB has only 3 hubs(Burlington, Austin, Santa Monica)

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-2qdgl

current top management is moving O to a supermarket-like company, a sort of IT mall, in which customers enter and choose an off-the-shelf product, pay and get out, possibly as fast as possible and with the least interaction with the store clerks.

no human interaction needed, no trusted relationship needed, no need for expensive sales reps to build a territory. everything needed is a youngster calling/responding on the phone, sort of store clerk asking "can I help sir?". if you havent's get this, you are out of O vision.

this started before the "O cloud vision" (by far too late and not effective at all), but MH quickly realized it is perfect for the cloud. few supermarkets...emh...sorry...meant few hubs around the world selling vaporware...emh...sorry...meant cloud services.


unfortunately for MH and his brilliant vision this is not working as expected.... maybe it's because it was wrong from the beginning. have you ever got in touch with AWS sales reps org? you should.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-2lmnp

So true...real reps not only expensive, but it takes at least 18 mos. to build accounts and territories. Anybody who tell you otherwise have never built a true partnership.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-2kowb

Right now, the inside sales, younger teams are in vogue not just at Oracle, but in the industry. Real field sales reps, the ones that Oracle used to employ that ate the competition alive, are expensive! And it takes a good 18-24 months to build a territory. These are the folks who knew how to go out and build relationships, get deep into an organization and bring technology solutions that impacted the business and made them more competitive.

From about 2004 -2014, the killer sales teams, especially on the Enterprise applications team, were some of the best the world has ever seen. They hired reps who had run businesses, had consulting backgrounds, or had MBAs from top schools. They paid incredibly well and on the applications side, they were very patient, as long as the rep was working hard. I saw one guy assigned to one account and he didn't sell anything to them for five years!!! But after five years, he took down a $60 million ERP deal!!!!!...and maintenance for a long time. He made a commission check of over $5 million on the deal. Oracle paid quickly (the next month) and for the whole thing. No hold-outs, no caps. No playing games.

Contrary to the image of Oracle as being high pressure and month to month, they actually understood that the best reps are not worried about month to month or quarter to quarter. They were smart, polished, and they cared about their customers. IBM had a similar sales force in the 1980's...they often sat in the boardroom meetings. At both these companies, their sales forces were able to show companies how their technology would change the game in their industry. It takes time to get close to executives. Oh, and at both these companies, when they lost patience and decided to cut costs on their sales force, their revenue number began to struggle...big time!

That type of selling is becoming a lost art. I am at a small analytics company, and if we can get a former Oracle ERP rep in his 50's that was able to last more than 5 years at Oracle, we grab them!!!!! Oracle from 2000 to 20012 did not employ fools. Many made millions and retired, but they are the best reps out there. Today's rep just don't have the training and know-how that these "older folks" do so we often pair them with our younger reps for mentorship.

We are not like the other companies that "want hunters" and don't want to pay large base salaries. If somebody gets an account, they keep it. Their territory is basically their business. We have grown every year beyond our plan.

MH is struggling with revenue. Today, you get around the execs at Oracle, you will often hear comments like "A rep making 1.5 million? That is crazy? The execs close the deals! Reps are making too much money." When they capped reps on "any one account" they told them "Oh, you're not capped, you just need to sell to multiple accounts." Reps saw right through it. And left, some with no job. Why? Because ERP deals in Enterprise accounts take time, and it just showed the reps that they were not appreciated. Reps hit the door. SAP ate Oracle alive in accounts after that. Nobody, nobody, wanted to fight hard for management when they are not being paid or treated fairly.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-2kswc

b---s--- oracle ran people into the ground long before this happened giving them nervous breakdowns just to shave costs... if your a 20;s something indian and work for little over min in industry they will hire - the most racist company in north america

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-1Iszx

Perhaps MH and LE should pay attention to the current attrition rate in the OD centers. It’s in excess of 62 % per year. So the young guns are leaving rather quickly. Seems as though 50 K per year with no commish doesn’t cut it.

BTW, large enterprise deals aren’t signed by developers. The “C” level is still in charge of the money.

At 40 M per year maybe the smarter move is to layoff the CEO.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-1Bqtz

Does this mean the new potential recruits will be on hold as well ?

"on hold" as in no bonuses/raises, etc? I would expect that as long as Oracle is losing money, bonuses/raises will be minimal. I expect sales to go down with the call center approach.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-1tvic

Does this mean the new potential recruits will be on hold as well ?

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-1tgfi

Oracle is stagnant. No bonuses, incentives,'s just a decent salary and incompetent management, from the top down. If you still work there, run.

Decent salary? Maybe by 3rd world standards.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-1mzph

Good riddance Oracle.

In '88 I was at a presentation at Davis Drive in which LE claimed Oracle ran on everything....yeah, right, badly.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-1lycp

Oracle is stagnant. No bonuses, incentives,'s just a decent salary and incompetent management, from the top down. If you still work there, run.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-ubnx

And since the oracle cloud is a mere figment of LE’s imagination, there is no migration path and thus no future revenues. Oops!

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-dead

Oracle's only play is to migrate existing Oracle database and apps to the "Oracle Cloud." The only customer they tout is AT&T (cloud at Customer) which basically has Exadata as a Service on premises with a 5 year ULA, and a 5 year renewal at the same price at the end of the first 5 years.

The "Cloud at Customer" offering isn't really cloud, as it sits in the customer's data center. But I am 100% certain the 200 million or so (guesstimate) AT&T paid for the 5 year ULA was ALL counted as cloud revenue.

Also certain that cloud credits sold for support reduction at 50% on the dollar are counted as cloud revenue. Also pretty sure the vast majority of that is not being consumed at all. Closer inspection of those customers in Oracle cloud... touted for marketing purposes are there for free or at a substantial discount.

@QswfiJB and @OurfSwz are two threads on this site asking about possible SEC investigations on Oracle cloud revenue. Cloud washing at Oracle is definitely real. We all know that the Sales people are incented to sell cloud above all else. If the sales people put cloud credits in the contract as they are instructed, then Oracle management will simply say... I was following what the sales guy put in the contract. Shame on the sales guy for scamming Oracle corporation to line his pockets with commissions on cloud credits. The highest managers will say they relied on accurate information from the SVP, GVP, VP and director... They will distances them from the deal.

Point is with all the cloud washing going on, cloud revenue growth is pathetic compared to every other single cloud vendor including IBM. Who's fault is this? Who is selling cloud at Oracle?

That's the problem! The entire field sales team. At the end of Q4 oracle will fire the weak legacy sales team and replace it with new Oracle digital call centers with super young super bright new sales people trained on cutting edge cloud technology.

Oracle's new cloud will be self driving and automated, with machine learning. Oracle will sell a superior cloud based on software. We are selling smarter ways of doing cloud computing, rather than just throwing hardware at it. And so... we will see if wall street buys it.

But yeah this is all according to plan. The timing coincides with a faltering Q4, and massive layoffs of the entire Oracle field sales team, and sales engineers. The executives will say unequivocally they got rid of the problem.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-dhlb

Only support revenue and DB revenues will be left and both will be declining, with apps support revenues declining much faster. A DB company with declining revenues can’t be worth more than $5-10 per share.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-dgjf

Once the sales force is wiped out and only the hubs exist, I would expect a huge drop in revenue. With no real cloud offerings, nothing will be sold by inexperienced kids in the hubs.

I suspect that LE's plan is to purchase small "cloud" companies that are on their last legs in order to use their revenue for as long as possible in the "cloud" bucket. Don't think that can work long term.

I still think stock under $30 by end of calendar year 2018. This has got to be the last year they can prop up the stock.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-dens

Except for the revenue generation part. Street is getting very clearly about the fact that real cloud companies are actually growing cloud revenues at a rapid clip; oracle is not. Oops! A minor inconvenience, wouldn’t you say? LOL! Party might be coming to an end - literally and figuratively!

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-bbzn

The scheme to get some tail makes a lot of sense to me. The turnover rate for the class of kids is completely unimportant then. In fact, the higher the turnover rate, the longer the need for the training and continuous stream of young women passing by LE and MH. I suspect they are proud of the turnover rate. Everything's working to plan. No problems here.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-bths

Run away as fast you can.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-axbm

Oracle’s so called cloud strategy and the sales layoffs never made any sense, this goes a long way to explaining what’s going on and why, none of which changes the fact that the 3 stooges are destroying oracle, but now at least we know why.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-9mka

In other words oracle doesn’t have a cloud strategy, rather a harem strategy, with the Austin mega harem as the hub, for MH’s and LE’s benefit. No wonder it’s so integrated with living quarters and everything, just like ancient harems. That’s what happens with no governance in place by the BoD handpicked by LE to let him use oracle resources as his toy. SELL!

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-9zfk

From what I have read on this site, the existing sales people are training the class of kids. Why on earth are you doing that? Why aren't you leaving? You know that you are just training your replacements, right? Seriously, you are just helping MH transfer your job to someone else. Why are you helping him?

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-9drn

"Isn't it a comforting thought to know that your job may be gone soon just because MH is horny."

Wouldn't Hurd's departure be considered a win? And how much would it cost to settle with whoever he harassed? It would probably be a few million.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-8xwn

Isn't it a comforting thought to know that your job may be gone soon just because MH is horny.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-8dqx

"Has a reserve for the damages from the anticipated lawsuits from these parties been set up?" Don't worry, Oracle's fleet of lawyers are on it already. They've probably got template docs all ready to go...just need to insert names of the people/entities when the sh1t actually goes down.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-8omu

LE and MH using oracle to chase young tail, that’s what it’s come to. Shareholders bail out ASAP!

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-8gfn

And LE is right behind him!

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-8vgo

Oh wow, what a great scam MH has worked out. I would bet these guys plan this kind of thing out from the start. MH doesn't think, "What would be good for the sales force?" first and work from there to make that happen. Instead he thinks, "how can I use my position to get some tail?", then he figures out where he can add some young women he can have access to and make up a good story for why that needs to be done. I would bet anything that's how he thinks.

Sick, really sick, and not at all surprising if true.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-7qrj

OMG! How clueless! What could possibly go wrong here! Like everything! Has a reserve for the damages from the anticipated lawsuits from these parties been set up?

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-7wpu

LOL! We now know how MH’s reign at oracle is going to end - ignominiously in a high publicity lawsuit, just like at HP. Some things just never change! Can’t wait, it will be an awesome day!

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-7qkb

#metoo oracle edition

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-6dzn

Super lawyer GA got MH’s butt kicked out of HP, so if something bad happened to anybody at MH’s house of Horrors, i’m Sure she’d like to hear about it and help any unsuspecting victim at some wild party. Give her a call!

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-6ozx

Exec Mgmt told me that Oracle had to purchase the San Mateo Marriott because the Kids trashed it after the first few "Class Of" groups went through... This article does not discuss the wreckage, but the backstory is Oracle had to buy it for legal reasons b/c of the destruction and ongoing problems these classless "class of" kids and the "training program" continually cause.

The wild parties and debauchery at this hotel are now legendary at Oracle. Most of the veteran sales folks and extended product teams are aghast at this behavior and tolerance for it.

To the business traveler booking a SFO hotel: Avoide the Marriott San Mateo as its an Oracle owned party annex.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-6gxy

This reminds me of how consulting companies like Accenture and others treat their new hires. Either you perform well enough and get promoted, or you get fired. This repeats until you reach your level of incompetence. Many are culled after the first year, those who survive get promoted and run through the ringer again, until eventually after just a few years everyone is gone, Of course, there is fresh meat to replace them, so they don't run out of bodies.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-6nsq

A couple of over the hill old geezers who want to chase young skirts, figure out that if they only hire young kids and help them organize parties at the company provided dorm in Austin, they will improve their chances of getting some, and thus thousands of experienced sales people who actually generate sales get fired.

@R4AdLKu-6qni, this may not be far from the truth.

Oracle has since changed the training program, in large part because Hurd hosts a graduation party for every graduating class at his house. He meets and talks with each graduate and asks for suggestions to improve the program. They all said they wanted more training and more practice.

I wonder in all those parties if one lost graduate managed to find MH somewhere alone. I wonder if, just maybe something happened that should not have. I also wonder if that lost young graduate realizes that this is a golden ticket, to a million dollar or more out of court settlement. One last pondering makes me wonder if there was a away we could find out if this really happened.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-6mur

THIS: “And, he says, as Oracle improves its training of both the college kids and the supervisors who mentor them, the number of Class Of graduates that leave is declining.” IS ALSO NOT HAPPENING BC of the ORACLE CORE CULTURE.

The kids who stay are fewer and farther apart. The caliber of kids coming on now are not the best & brightest. They are the complacent partiers who will hustle until they burn out or get married and see that there’s life beyond the post collegiate party scene.

The fact that this Fortune 500 co-CEO and Chairman stated to the media openly this “strategy” for back to the future blah blah blah with all their ridiculous reasoning and justification that’s it’s their big novel idea is laughable.

Oracle is an odious company run by at least three odious people. The leadership sets the tone and direction and atmosphere. Oracle’s history and customer reputation is odious. Look it up: odious. Says it all.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-6gep

So now all employees and shareholders know how important decisions are made and strategy is set at oracle. A couple of over the hill old geezers who want to chase young skirts, figure out that if they only hire young kids and help them organize parties at the company provided dorm in Austin, they will improve their chances of getting some, and thus thousands of experienced sales people who actually generate sales get fired. Corporate America at its best!

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-6qni

The kids in hubs have figured out how to game the Phone systems at corporations to hit their call quotas and associated bonuses$ without actually talking to anyone at the companies, Mgmt has no clue.

This would not surprise me at all! More stupidity at the top. The kids have the game figured out and the old deranged guys at the top who think they are the ones using the kids, are really being used BY the kids!

LOL! Idiots!

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-5vfq

Utterly deranged! No sign of intelligent life on the top floor of 500, Beam me out of here Scottie!

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-5npk

Fwiw, SFDC & AWS are not jettisoning their veteran Sales teams. They are ramping up!

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-5gta

Truly excellent tech SELLS ITSELF. You think SFDC and AWS need to do this? Contrived methods to make an old dinosaur like Oracle into a startup are just to make more $$ for the grizzled old management team. Oracle still has a lousy reputation as an employer and a vendor.

by | Post ID: @R4AdLKu-5rzk

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