Thread regarding Cisco Systems Inc. layoffs

Interviewing for 3 jobs now. All Cisco level 14 and above equivalent. Final rounds in all of them. I'm currently a level 10 here. What have i been doing with my life

Always remember this, I hope it helps you put things in perspective and take a step back. I often tell this to my teams: nobody is going to give you a medal for sacrificing PTO, family time and weekends for a job the day you get terminated, or the day you're on your death bed. That time is gone for good, you won't ever catch up with it. Now if you work overtime because you enjoy it, nothing wrong with that. But don't let someone else's artificial deadline become your problem. If a leader can't manage projects and systematically overcommits, it's not your problem to fix. He or she needs to realize it's far better to have a team of happy empowered employees than a group tired and ruled by fear.

"I wish more management at Cisco was like you."

It would be great if they all lived up to the ethos. But they don't. Most likely this leader DOES have managers that work for him that do abuse their staff's non work time. But he won't know it. We know if we complain we will be out on our butts the next LR. So, again, the only solution to the system problem is to remove the fear management style in play. Stop the routine layoffs. Give people the ability to speak up without fear. Everyone wins, including the shareholders.

Yes. I'm all for giving my all when things like this come up. But they come up all the time. Many hours of uncompensated overtime are the norm. Weekends are the norm. Even working during PTO has become the norm.

I used to work on a team that supported a P1 application, so we had a rotating on-call. We would put in for on-call "standby" status for our week, and usually logged 1 hr per day of on-call work because we had to assign all cases that came in between end of business (5PM local) and the end of our on-call shift (11PM). The new team I'm on, the manager said we can put in for "standby" time every week, but any "work" we do is just part of the expected exempt/salaried nature of our job and we can only submit hours worked "if it's an emergency", not if we get woken in the middle of the night by an e-page and we have to spend 30 min to an hour checking to see if it's something we have to resolve right now or if it can wait until morning. As a salaried person, I get it, but frankly, I'm going to miss the real "on-call" pay I used to get. Now I'm more likely to ignore e-pages until morning unless I know it's a real issue instead of being proactive and investigating. Or, if I investigate, then I'm starting the next day X number of hours late depending on how much sleep I lost due to being woken up.

Nope. You have let it become your norm. Just say no. Trust me, I manage several teams and I don't expect people to work during weekends or PTO. And if one my directors or managers asks their reports to do so, I'll have a unilateral conversation with them.

I wish more management at Cisco was like you. I was dealing w/ Cisco stuff while traveling home to deal w/ my mother's funeral. Luckily most of it was read emails in the evening and reply with answers on how to do something and check in the next night, but still, it was time and focus taken away from dealing with a family emergency.

"The only way to start this is stop the routine layoffs"

It's the only way Robbins knows, it was passed down from Chambers. Obsession with reducing costs to boost margins without a care for long term strategy. We can't fire the ELT. If we just become complacent and refuse to challenge nonsensical situations then we're all responsible for driving Cisco into the ground just like the ELT is. Employees can drive change. What's the worst that can happen? Better choices lead to better products, happier customers and employees. And ultimately fewer layoffs.

"Culture can change if and when everybody pulls together."

The only way to start this is stop the routine layoffs and other mechanism that cause staff (and execs) to backstab each other. There is no sense of safety. In such a culture, conformity as well as toxic relations among staff occur. Embrace your "negative neds/nancies" as they speak truth and will save you.

"As everybody knows (even the last leader check-in mentioned this) people don’t leave a company, they leave their boss."

No no no, it's just not that simple! People leave for reasons only they're intimately familiar with. There are dozens of reasons for leaving. Cisco has a very serious attrition problem right now. How convenient for check-in speakers to shift the blame solely on managers! There is a culture problem at Cisco: we have lost the appetite to challenge and discuss questionable decisions. Too many people just blindly execute orders they know deep inside to be wrong or shortsighted. Only this week's numbers matter. Releasing version 6.5.(8) by December 21 at all cost, no matter how buggy it is matters. That's just broken if you ask me. We have no mid or long-term vision. You know why? Precisely because nobody is challenging decisions anymore. Your SVP is totally missing the mark and everybody knows we're headed straight into a brick wall? People cheer up in all hands anyway and compliment the SVP for a job well done. Cisco isn't innovating because of that. I know teams where people don't speak up either by fear of not getting a raise, fear of getting laid off, or fear of being the only dissident voice. Challenging can be done constructively. You don't build better products by blindly following orders you know aren't wise. You build better products when valuable feedback is encouraged and welcome. Team up and challenge questionable decisions! Bring your experience and perspective, invite debates in the decision process. Culture can change if and when everybody pulls together.

"They say, get it done or you're in the next LR cycle."

Precisely. Want to improve morale (which impacts productivity and creativity)? Remove the fear based management technique pioneered by Jack Welch. It's terrible for a tech company. It's also stone age thinking.

We know we are constantly at risk of a layoff so we don't take risks. We don't push back on bad managers. We don't speak up and say "hold on, that's a bad idea." The company suffers greatly for it.

We need a new ELT since the current ones don't understand. If they haven't learned by now they won't.

The thing is - managers don't respect a "no" here at Cisco. They say, get it done or you're in the next LR cycle. Maybe you get some say up in the highest ranks - I don't know, I'm not there. But anyone below upper management is treated like slave labor.

Some people here on visas - are literally treated like slave labor. The management flogs visa holders and red badges nearly to death from the stress (actually had team members that have gone into counseling and medical leave because of the stress - real stuff, not faking it, they were really mentally messed up from it and getting physically ill).

The management knows that if visa holders are fired, they get shipped back home and lose everything they've been working for here. And they just treat red-badges (contractors) like temps (left out of team events, have trouble getting access to tools, get all the awful work, not part of connected recognition, etc).

You have a terrible manager. If you ever end up leaving, ensure his hierarchy knows his behavior is what pushed you to look elsewhere. Or you could challenge him: ask him what he believes PTO is for. Ask him why he doesn't believe corporate guidelines about unplugging don't apply to him, and whether he's supported by his hierarchy.

You’re assuming it’s a “he”. As everybody knows (even the last leader check-in mentioned this) people don’t leave a company, they leave their boss.

doubled my salary this year, so i dont care about inflation, and yeah im not working 80 hours a week anymore, I put in maybe 30 cause who cares what you really do as long as leaders make their goals

"Got a bad IPF as a result"

You have a terrible manager. If you ever end up leaving, ensure his hierarchy knows his behavior is what pushed you to look elsewhere. Or you could challenge him: ask him what he believes PTO is for. Ask him why he doesn't believe corporate guidelines about unplugging don't apply to him, and whether he's supported by his hierarchy. Sorry about your experience, it's just not how things are supposed to work. Employees are not slaves.

"Just say no."

Did. Got a bad IPF as a result. Yes, I am trying to get out from this boss while looking for another job as well. Going to someone like you for help is a surefire way to get blackballed. The "peasants" don't have any power except to leave. Things are very different for us.

"Many hours of uncompensated overtime are the norm. Weekends are the norm. Even working during PTO has become the norm."

Nope. You have let it become your norm. Just say no. Trust me, I manage several teams and I don't expect people to work during weekends or PTO. And if one my directors or managers asks their reports to do so, I'll have a unilateral conversation with them.

How about you do not spend every weekend on work and do spend time with your family/hobbies/whatever makes you tick. If work makes you tick and after those efforts you do not feel appreciated, there is a world outside open.
Boundaries will not be set by whatever company you work for ,perhaps if lucky by a good manager/director but this is more exception rather then rule.
If you are running for the dangling carrot put in front of you. I suggest you to stop persuiting it for a while and enjoy that liberated feel. Or continue the path you are doing right now. Choice is yours and your alone

Your choice. Learn to say no. Make clear boundaries between life and work and respect them.

If you didn't get a raise this year you just got a huge pay cut. Inflation is off the charts.

Yes. I'm all for giving my all when things like this come up. But they come up all the time. Many hours of uncompensated overtime are the norm. Weekends are the norm. Even working during PTO has become the norm.

No recognition for all this effort. NONE. Sure, part of the job. But so are raises and many other aspects that exist elsewhere. Disheartened. Final straw.

Log4J

Lots of people stuck working over the shutdown too. Even though they were forced to take extra PTO.

I am. After the new year I start in earnest.

Why don't you leave?