People give it their all and then some to get where they are and what do they get for that? Nothing but mistreatment. People are used and stepped all over only to be dismissed when they're deemed to make too much (which in itself is ridiculous, considering how underpaid we all are). This company has lost its moral compass if it ever had it.
26 replies (most recent on top)
If you dont see it youre, frankly, not in a role that matters. The upper middle management numbers tell the story
“I said, find another job, in house or outside. She is not going to say that.”
Bullying is behavior that a bully owns. No one else. YOU know what you need to do.
Bullying? How can I bully you if I don't even know who you are? I think you'll find that the feeling that you call bulling is really just a conflict within yourself. You probably actually agree with most of what I said: 1) if it is a substantive claim (s ex, r ace, stealing, bribery) report it 2) the company will give managers some leeway 3) you should probably find a new job.
That last one is tough because I'm facing it now. Not due to the manager, but due to the general working environment. I should probably leave. Other posters have said how good things are right now in the job market. But, you get comfortable and tolerate a lot of things that you shouldn't. Maybe it's like boiling a frog; you just get used to things and don't notice the water is getting hotter. I'll see if I get a decent bonus and go from there.
On the point that bad managers cause turn-over and cost the company money: I agree. But if the manager is mostly getting the job done, the upper managers just see it as a cost of doing business, or maybe they don't even see it at all. Sometimes I think they even WANT turnover to keep seniority and with it wages down.
Let me repeat so that you know I'm not a bully:
You know what to do.
Grumpy thinks “she” can bully people. She is wrong.
Hard to believe that the company is only interested in substantive complaints that pose legal liability. Bad morale leads to turnover which impacts even the happiest of employees. It is disruptive to business. Why can't people just behave themselves?
LMAO? I'll laugh with you. Black jacket? No. If you think about what I wrote, you'd know that's not the case.
I essentially said, don't bother reporting unless it is substantive. Substantive meaning a serious offense that represents a liability to the company. Mean, incompetent and bad managers don't rise to substantive. She is not going to say that. She'll say report any issues, we want to hear them all and she's not going to tell you that her job is to protect the company, not you. I said if the manager is getting things done on time and one budget, the company tends to overlook other things. Even if the manager is only APPEARING to get things done on time and on budget, till he/she is found out, that's good enough too.
Here's a way of thinking about it: if the New York Times found out and wrote an article about it, would it damage the reputation of the company?
I said, find another job, in house or outside. She is not going to say that.
I said the company gives managers the benefit of the doubt and probably won't act till the third strike. She's going to tell you that they take all issues seriously and one complaint is enough. (OK, it is enough if it is bad enough, but mostly it isn't).
I explained that there is a difference between how the execs view things looking down and peons view things looking up. She's just as happy if you don't realize that and believe that we're all "One MetLife".
As far as having seen it directly - no, I haven't. I suspect it varies quite a bit by department. I also suspect that IT is probably the worst, maybe customer service would have it bad too.
lmao at this Grumpy guy. Are you actually black jacket because that would explain A LOT on why managers aren't held accountable at this company. Turnover is very costly to the company. If you have managers that are causing high turnover in a department, they are literally losing the company money. But sure, let's turn a blind eye to their toxic behavior.
If you haven't seen management abuse at MetLife, you're either extremely fortunate or not paying attention.
@4jfx+1eyInTve has sound advice for everyone on this board. I left the company last week and over doubled my salary + stocks. The grass is greener out there.
Look, the job market is on fire right now and people are finding better jobs for big money. Why not move on? There is no need to settle for “atrocious treatment.” Update your resume and move on to greener pastures.
@Grumpy. Bad Senior managers are kept around because they serve a purpose for the food chain $. There is a bigger strategic plan in play and peons are not supposed to know about such things. People who know about and are responsible for doing something about atrocious managers, don’t because the abusive manager is needed more than the person who’s complained. It’s serves their higher purpose (making $ or saving $)
@Riddler. No surprises here. Many kids gone down that rabbit ho-e.
Happy New Year MetLife.
That’s right. Only leaders get 3 strikes and are supported with development plans. All others - watch your back.
But hey, cheer up! As Grumpy said, you have options.
put up with it, get out. Or call a lawyer. Hahaha!!!!!
@Riddler. This is exactly right! This is what the do! PIP out of no where in last quarter of year!
There is an AVP, formerly in legal, that has no idea how lead a business group. That department MV down 14 points in 2 categories. I’d like to know if the AVP is on a PIP? For them it’s called Leadership Development.
@Grumpy. Thanks for providing management and HR insights. It confirms what most people already know.
We do know what to do.
Those who are on the way out or have left - Ban together. Those who stay - Unionize.
@Grumpy. It’s not a war crime or as bad as working in a warehouse.
This must be Todd.
@Riddler: You know what to do.
@Grumpy. Ok. so now the threat of someone’s livelihood and mental well being boils down to a riddle associates must solve? Comical. you have also stated from HR and Management perspective that it is a game of 3 strikes and management is out.
Strike one - associate is blindsided with a PIP second half of year without any mid year feedback or warning (rated highly year prior).
Strike two - same associate reviewed poorly only a few months later during end of year feedback and without any chance for improvement.
Strike three - said associate is now pushed out the door quickly thereafter because….
It boils down managers head or associates head when poor feedback comes in against a bad boss during mid year prior.
Before an associate can solve the riddle…
A: there is a carefully crafted trail against them using HR tools and channels meant to develop associates
B: fault is conveniently placed elsewhere even though associates are not empowered to be responsible for complaints against a manager.
C: now throw in the friendship factor & talk about banning together. While the under compensated and mistreated Peons need to “ ban” together to keep job…the over compensated management and HR “ban” together to protect thier pay grade level peers.
So that is how the 3 strikes works from non management associates perspective.
End game and master move from management and HR playbook is that
The associate chair continues to rotate so the bad manager can stay.
Management will continue to run the very public associate empowerment campaigns while pushing, pushing good people out of the door.
I agree with #metoometlife - that is how this terrible morale & culture continues.
Morale is terrible. I agree with that.
Have you thought of things from upper management or HR's point of view? I'm not saying I agree with it, but what do they see in the VP and AVP that they have been kept around even after the complaints?
Solve that riddle, and you'll know what to do.
You'll know whether it is worth fighting, or time to follow the others that have moved on.
The view from the top is: did the job get done on time and within budget? Did the AVP & VP do anything that could cause a problem for the still Senior VP? In this context, bribing, money laundering, hate speech and s ex ual harassment would be problem causing. Nearly anything else, including making people cry would be ok. I'm not saying it IS ok. I'm not saying that's how you get the best work out of people. But unfortunately, that's how it is.
One last thing. On the Help Desk, I mentioned the figure "5". I have no idea what it takes to get the Help Desk and apparatus behind it to actually do something. It's probably way more than 5 reports.
But, for a manager, I think the figure is 3, just like strikes in baseball. They have to be substantive reports as in something that could get the company sued if the complainer were angry enough to find a lawyer and sue. My belief is that on the first complaint, HR and the manager's manager assume that, yeah, the manager might have been partially at fault, but maybe the reporting person has issues and maybe the manager learned something.
On the second report, the manager is read the riot act, and told he/she is on thin ice. They still want the manager, because face it, it's a pain to go find a replacement, but now they really believe the complaint.
On the third report, that's it. Even if the manager's manager would prefer to keep him/her, HR and legal will make it clear that the person must be fired.
So, if your complaints are substantive, and I know you have said they are, raise them.
Three strikes and you're OUT.
@Grumpy. Let me get this straight —If it was not a case of public berating than it is not emotional or abusive behavior?
Why I am replying is that I HAVE witnessed it happen to people publicly and that boss is still here. Yes- The senior leader still here….many direct reports complained and moved on. There has been a reported pattern with one AVP that I know of and also another VP — both still here. So, people under these bad bosses have moved on because they wanted change. victims moved on because MetLife was not supporting or addressing bad bosses and leaders. Some people that I know have changed jobs and others left the company. This is happening more and more. The wrong people are leaving while the bad behavior and cycle continues. And the people who I know that have been mistreated have filled out my voice surveys honestly and those who left the company have filled out exit interviews honestly. Considering surveys and ER/HR complaints, ML has plenty of data where people should not have to ban together for action to be taken.
why on earth would you not trust people when they say they are targeted, mistreated or subject to unprofessional and abusive behavior? You are foolish. Open your eyes to our company culture. Where have you been that you are not aware of how bad things have become. Morale is terrible.
So, Grumpy….is that really what you think should have to happen? More than 5 people have to ban together before it is believable? While the bad bosses and leaders stay? That is fundamentally wrong on so many levels….I agree with @metoometlife that this type of attitude is why the problem continues.
@MeToo: Ok. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by emotional abuse. Do you mean the manager publicly berated you? Do you mean the manager asked you to do your job and held you accountable? At MetLife, THAT would be considered abuse. Heaven forbid anyone be held accountable.
Without knowing the details (and I understand you can't post them here), it's hard for me to know whether your manager is psycho (it happens!) or whether maybe you have some issues too (sorry - I can't discount that. There are some whiners).
You say that it isn't just one person that is on the receiving end, but only one has reported it. Well, band together and all of you report it. Just like Help Desk ... err .. "Service" Desk Tickets, they might not care about one (they don't) , but if five come in with the same issue, they just might escalate it to the second level support. I do know of one somewhat high ranking Met executive that was canned. To this day, I don't know exactly what the guy did (I can only imagine), but there is a point where the person is a liability to the corporation and even if you've been in the management "club", they will turn on you and cut you loose faster than you can believe. I suspect, but don't know, that for this guy that there had been other complaints and that the last one was the "last straw" so to speak. So, if your beef is real, don't give up on reporting it.
Alternatively, maybe it's time for a change? Maybe switch to a different job. Met's big on this MyPath stuff. Maybe their is another place in the corporation that would be better for you? Plan B is to find a job at another company, especially if you think this is company-wide. Frankly, I don't see it, but it's a big company.
I think people are using hashtag me too metlife to say that they too feel the same way working at MetLife?? Which is saying that the culture is toxic but I could be wrong though. Yes- metoo movement is focused on se-ual harassment but it does not seem like people are saying that?? Most of us have not been in the office since COVID closed offices. And I agree - really hard to prove if it was or is happening. As far as using with atrocious, I don’t see it being far fetched. Have you looked up the meaning? It is not in any way reserved…people are free to use it to express their feelings.
@Grumpy. Listen up. There are employees that are emotionally abused by managers. And it is atrocious. I have been an on going recipient of emotional abuse by the business I support and coworkers. And I know of an individual who documented every instance of emotional abuse by her direct manager, submitted it to senior management. Guess what? NOTHING WAS DONE. This manager should have been fired decades ago. #metoometlife refers to no se-ual abuse by managers.
@metoo: The burden is on you to prove that you are being treated atrociously. How?
You sign #metoometlife. Are you saying that you have been s ex ually abused or harrassed? Seriously?
I suppose that goes on, but I haven't seen it. And, I think that a manager that engaged in that would be risking his (her?) career. Yes, HR mostly sides with management, but there are certain things that managers cannot do and they will be cut loose for it.
Report it and get away from it.
That said, I do believe consensual stuff happens and leads some to get promotions and raises that are not deserved. This is bad for the employees that don't get the promotion that they deserved and for the company as a whole because it fosters incompetence. In cases like that, I'd like to see both parties fired.
But as far as "atrocious", I don't think most MetLifer's think they are being treated atrociously. That's a word normally used for war crimes. A heavy, serious word. If you are truly being treated that way, you should report it and get out. At all costs.
I read your reply and have a hard time getting behind your disclaimer. I find your response in itself to be atrocious or wicked…
Your words do not change, comfort or diminish the current reality of those who are subject to abusive behavior in the workplace.
Minimizing someone else’s experience through comparison to an even worse reality of another is hardly compassionate.
In fact, It reminds me of words and behavior of an abuser….
I sincerely am sorry to hear that you too are not happy.
But, simply not being happy is very different than being mistreated or abused in the workplace.
While it may be your truth, please consider that telling someone who has been mistreated or abused that other people have it worse does not excuse a toxic culture but in fact brings us to the very root of the problem.
Atrocious isn't quite how I'd put it.
Warehouse workers for the company that delivers with a smile - they are treated atrociously.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not happy, but wouldn't put the treatment as far as atrocious.