Thread regarding IBM layoffs

Post from TheLayoff.com

I hope you find peace. You seem like a joy to be around.

OP you are young and d-mb Enjoy it And in your language GFYDB

OP here- believe what you want - cannot express enough how little (clearly 1% for a response here) I care.

Guess it is hard for you to believe that a few younger folks have been successful on their own merits. Your opinion is wildly misguided/toxic and I truly recommend you get some professional help, if you can stomach your ego taking a back seat.

Nothing but love

Yhis is the most bull$h1t laden post I have ever seen on this site. There are 2 things I believe OP is a Summit grad and I'm sure is doing well thanks to their godfather. What a farce

It seems like you don’t know very much about how IBM actually works. IBM is essentially a technology marketing company, with a very carefully crafted image. IBM employs legions of external/public/government relations folks, advertising agencies, and lawyers to carefully protect and nurture that image. It’s entirely within the realm of possibility that IBM would have one of its public relations people spend a few hours writing some posts here to diffuse some of the understandably angry discussions that are posted here, because IBM Management has stuck it to so many of its current and former employees, and customers. Also, this is not “a random forum nobody's ever even heard of” … you’re posting here, aren’t you? Look at the stats for this forum -- there are thousands of views every day. A lot of folks posting about the absolutely horrible experiences that they’ve had with IBM has probably gotten under IBM Senior Management’s notoriously thin skin.

Bahaha! A public relations person hired by IBM?? Dude, put the conspiracies back in your pocket. It is the funniest sh** in the world when paranoid nbs in a random forum nobody's ever even heard of suddenly think anyone at IBM gives a sh. You really think IBM with all their bs wants to convince a thread full of ex-IBMers that IBM is great? Put the pipe down friend and put on some coffee.

If you’re being treated well, making good money, and are happy where you are, I would say just stick with it for now. Unfortunately, you’re in a definite minority at IBM right now. However, eventually something will change – maybe there’ll be a re-org where you’ll be placed under a real “kiss up, kick down” manager whose only goal is to strip every bit of cost out of your org so he/she can look good to their superiors. Or, a key manager will retire or move-on, or your compensation plan will be revised downward because you’re making “too much”, or you or a close co-worker/mentor will be “selected” for inclusion in a “Resource Action” … and suddenly life’s not-so-good anymore. Eventually, something really bad will happen to you personally, you’ll have an epiphany, and will know that it’s time to move-on.

Like I mentioned in my earlier post, I’m a technical guy and not a salesman, so most of my former co-workers went to companies like Google, Intel, and Microsoft … a few even went to biotech companies that use computing resources for genome sequencing and the like. I don’t know what your age and risk tolerance is. But if I were a younger guy with a lot of marketing savvy like you appear to have, I would try to find a biotech/pharma startup with a really promising product pipeline, and get in on the “ground floor” by taking a lot of my compensation in stock grants/options. Maybe you come away with nothing, maybe you’re a multi-millionaire in 5-10 years. For a good salesman, it doesn’t matter what the product is, as long as it’s something that customers want and need, you should be able to sell it.

Sorry if I came off as overly cynical in my previous post, but I’ve been lied to and betrayed by IBM Management so many times (like the “Great Pension Heist” of 1999 where many of us lost more than half of the pension that we were told we would receive when we joined IBM) that I’m just not very trusting of anyone anymore.

Good luck, my friend.

Totally understand- on a board of negativity, it is very suspect someone posts an experience like this.

Maybe I shouldn't have posted the experience and just asked the question, "In the off-chance you are having a good experience at IBM, at what point should you leave anyway and where would be your top 5 landing spots?"

In a world where I am not trying to convince anyone of anything- simply stating my experience- and am genuinely curious the answer to my question above, could you move past the fact you don't believe me and offer any valuable insight? Would be much appreciated!

Yeah, Just don't buy it.

OP Here- again, thanks for all of the replies.

I can assure you I am not a PR pro but appreciate the feedback on effective communication!

Answers like this are exactly what I'm looking for.

Intention not to pump up IBM but to detail a positive experience and ask what I should be thinking about next, given my different experience.

If you were in this position, what companies would you put at the top of your list to target that offer big $ opportunity in sales? And if things are still good here, when do you look to do something different anyway?

@pbe - Looking at how your last post is structured and written, I suspect you're actually a Public Relations Professional who's been contracted by IBM to try and put a positive spin on the really angry discourse being expressed in this forum. A lot of people have been royally scroowed over by IBM Management, and what you're seeing posted here is simply a manifestation of all the arrogance and bad faith that IBM has shown to its employees. If you are, in fact, an IBM Sales employee, you must have a really fantastic Management Team ... that is completely atypical within IBM nowadays. I had some really good Managers at IBM in the distant past, but my last three managers at IBM were, unfortunately, complete doosch nozzles. I was one of the Senior Engineers that invented and developed the products that you sell. This was not an easy job given all the micro-management by clueless non-technical managers. Nonetheless, I worked extremely hard to bring new and valuable ideas to market ... but all my efforts went completely unappreciated by Management. So, eventually I just had enough, and I took a job elsewhere where I'm appreciated and valued. What IBM Management is maybe finally starting to realize is that globalization was never about a financial race to the bottom, but was, in fact, a race to the top for the best minds on the planet ... whether they're from the Americas, Europe, Asia, or Africa. Unfortunately, IBM has treated its employees in such an abusive and disrespectful manner, and now has such a terrible reputation as an employer, that IBM will probably never be able to recover from this current downtrend.

I can agree with the OP that there are opportunities to do well at IBM. But "well" is relative. I used to do well when I worked in IBM sales. However it caught up with me, and t got harder and harder to do well (70% quota hikes 2 years in a row!!). I left, and found out there is more money to be made outside of IBM, and you have more control over your destiny, client base and pricing structure.
Enjoy it while/if you can, because it too shall pass - they key is knowing when to bail

Stick around long enough and you'll get bent too don't worry

Someone a few years ahead of me in school had gone through the program - didn’t know them all that well- I inquired about it and went through the regular hiring process. Again- I believe nepotism/favoritism is a problem here- but that is not how it worked in my own experience.
Incredulous, I know!

How did you find out about the Summit program? Don't be coy you either have a family member or very good family friend who is in Management.

What brand? Security?

OP here. Thanks for the comments- love the open discussion, and will address some of the comments made. If I'm being snarky, I'm just being honest in response to what I've read here. You may like it. You may not. All good either way.

1. ) "Is that dollars or rupees?"

• Dollars- and seems like the commenter who asked dollars vs rupees has beef with the way jobs are being moved offshore, which is fair- I just hope the comment is made in anger toward business practice and not the good people trying to better their lives in other countries

2. ) "Sounds like a comp plan that rides on ELAs"

• Have made money on many ELAs in many different verticals- that being said, hardly ever is it the case where I can simply ride the coattails, as what I sell is highly scrutinized in budgets and the eyes of leadership at the majority of our clients. full sales cycles and often many layers of politics to cut through- a lot of times we get cut out of ELAs because of this.
• Have also had success on one-off deals that has contributed significantly to comp

3. ) "F v ck the Summit Program the 6 executive kids and 3 id--ts are not worth the 1 diamond in the rough. They get forced onto Managers and get in the way of others career progression. Such a waste of 10s of millions of dollars and resources. Hate that program"

• A lot to unpack here. I hate to hear that you've had a bad experience (seems more often than not) with people coming through Summit. I'd also invite you to think back when you started your career in IT. You didn't know everything then (maybe people thought you were an id*ot), and you don't now. Have known plenty who think they do and I know how people talk about them- no thanks.
• I agree that nepotism is a HUGE issue here and deserves the scrutiny. That being said, Summit was a way for me to get into a tech company and their sales org at a very young age (from a non-ivy league/top tier school- and I won't apologize for working side by side with you or others who may have who look down on this).
• I work with a lot of Summit hires who have been in the field for a few years and it is definitely hit or miss.
• Curious what you would have IBM do differently to try and develop/hire young talent?

4. ) "What do YOU OP think makes it different for you? I'll ignore the disingenuous questions about your future since you should have enough money to last a lifetime. What did you do differently?"

• If I'm being honest, the #1 thing is that I think the way my management cards have fallen has helped me immensely and no doubt has helped my career. My managers have always supported growth/promotion and want our team to make money
• My questions are genuine, as you'll see if you re-read my question that I am acknowledging the earnings while being concerned that I shouldn't be focusing on that if people truly do look down on folks working at IBM for >5 years. At what point do you need to consider doing something different for the future despite things being good in the present?
• To address what I've done differently- I have observed that sellers 5-20 years older than me (and this is a generality and not everyone of course) are more-so lone wolves than team players. Just an observation.
• I've made it a point to be the opposite of that and work across brands, etc. to try to add value to their parts of the business. Can't always be done or help from my end, but I'm big on relationships and make it a point to build them with sellers internally, whether they can help me personally or not
• and cheesy, but solution sell. Never go in pitching a product for no reason externally

5. ) "Don't worry about your future - since you can sell the sh----a that IBM is offering then you can sell anything anywhere. "

• Thanks for the tongue in cheek feedback- to some extent this feels like a complement, but I do feel that our clients gain significant value from the solutions our team sells

6. ) " let me guess, were they financially engineered deals via an ELA or similar? Or can you tell me that you sold a net new mega deal? Not an upgrade from something, not an expansion, not increasing some legacy product...like a NET NEW deal for a software product invented in the last 5 years that the client doesn’t already own? That maybe you competed against another product and won?
   quoted from @8ipb+18zWezS8

And are your clients really using all what they purchased? "

• Yes- have had deals that are financial swizzling- have sold lots of net new deals.
• Have had success with competitive take-outs outside of mega deals
• Our brand produces new tech and we are always trying to match that with customer need- have had success here
• Yes- clients use from day 1 when we sell outside of an ELA typically, as we are coming off of a POC on their systems, etc. As far as ELAs go- we typically deploy 85-100% of SW we sell- otherwise the business sees huge reversals- not good

7. ) No, I did not help sell Watson- although I am sure that the Lawyers and M&A folks who did made quite a bit of coin

Other ponderings as a salesperson:

Wouldn't you have liked to have been the salesperson at WorkDay, Salesforce, or Apple who sold IBM HR sw /ISC/Macbooks.

Thanks again for participating in the discussion

To @OP,

let me guess, were they financially engineered deals via an ELA or similar? Or can you tell me that you sold a net new mega deal? Not an upgrade from something, not an expansion, not increasing some legacy product...like a NET NEW deal for a software product invented in the last 5 years that the client doesn’t already own? That maybe you competed against another product and won?
quoted from @8ipb+18zWezS8

And are your clients really using all what they purchased?

Don't worry about your future - since you can sell the sh----a that IBM is offering then you can sell anything anywhere.

What do YOU OP think makes it different for you?

I'll ignore the disingenuous questions about your future since you should have enough money to last a lifetime.

What did you do differently?

F v ck the Summit Program the 6 executive kids and 3 id--ts are not worth the 1 diamond in the rough. They get forced onto Managers and get in the way of others career progression. Such a waste of 10s of millions of dollars and resources. Hate that program

Did you just help sell Watson ?

sounds like a comp plan than rides on an ELA

@OP+1fa88yHS - 250k (floor) & 700k (highest year) ... Is that Dollars or Rupees?

Typically I have quotas in the $1m-$3m range per half.
Have had halves on huge accounts where I deliver >$10m in revenue and smaller territories/halves where I’ve delivered 500k-1.5m in revenue.
Now- we all know it is all about the specific comp plan you happen to have for that 6 month period…

Just curious how much revenue do you usually bring in for the company each year?