Why do people still get pension when it was ended in 2004...almost 20 years ago. It is not fair that I do the same work as someone hired before 2004 and they get pension too. This needs to end, only 401k. Ford is going to go bankrupt if they do not end it ASAP. Why do future generations work for the people getting pension at that time, this is so unfair.
23 replies (most recent on top)
I agree with everything that the last poster says except for the 30 year vesting comment
Your 30 year significance is only if you are less than 55 years so that you can retire.
If you are more than 55 and have between 20 and 30 yr experience, you still get a significant payment.
30 is not a magic bullet anymore. There is no exponential increase because you made the 30 mark.
The pension estimates are tied to average salary, years of experience, life expectancy and of course interest rates for lumpsum payment
To the OP, you are way off base with your comparison. The bottom line is that I hired into Ford based on a compensation package that included a defined benefits pension. That was a factor in selecting the Ford offer versus others, including my previous employer. Had they not offered this pension, it likely would have taken a higher salary offer to get me to move.
When you hired into Ford, I'm sure you also had to make decisions about whether the compensation was competitive. since you took the job, you evidently found the offer to be competitive.
Cancelling my pension just because you are jealous doesn't seem very reasonable. And as others have stated, at least yours is portable. The vesting curve on mine is such that it has very little value until I hit 30 years. So I have a lot to lose if I move elsewhere, and have a target on my back from those looking to avoid the payout if I make it to 30.
Ahahahaah! OP u make me laugh. Getting rid of pension obligations is so 2008! Never happened at Ford due to family not wanting to give up control and not going through a bankruptcy charade. Remember the other big two as well as suppliers went through that.
The old pension benefit was just a set of handcuffs keeping a lot of people from leaving. You are lucky that you can take your $$ that Ford is giving you and leave after you're vested. Pensioners can't do that. They can leave, but the pension stays unless they have more than 10 years and are older than 55.
Can anyone tell me if the GRP Retirement Projections calculated reflect reductions based on age and years of service. i.e. if you are younger than 62 and have less than 30 years there is a reduction in benefit. Wanted to make sure the numbers calculated are specific to my situation and account for the reductions mentioned. Thanks.
FRP HRA benefit = $800 / YEAR for each year worked, and does not vest until 10 years. GRP HRA benefit = $1000 / MONTH upon retirement. Get the facts right. FRP benefit is a joke.
The cause of Ford's problems is their inability to make quality cars. Then expected government bailout which happened in the past. Then continue making cr---y cars. Can't make $ if people don't trust the quality of the products. Just how the market works. Government should have never bailed it out in the first place.
OP - please educate yourself. New people are on a Defined Contribution Plan vs. the Defined Benefit Plan. Both groups of people get a retirement benefit. Stop creating false divisions.
There are only 10000 folks still working that are part of the GRP. By the end of the year there will probably be a lot less. There are 20000 some in the FRP.
The curse of the pension locks many into the 30 year grind. Some risk if you fail to make it. The FRP builds along the way and you can exit and take your ball and go play somewhere else.
Took the lump sum when I retired in 2020. The pension essentially paid me another 30k+/year while I was working for Ford.
So there it's out there and that is what the difference was for folks hired post 2004 although as has been mentioned earlier those employees post 2004 had ~5% salary put into an IRA through Ford and an HRA for post retirement medical expenses including premiums.
That's how it was back then... Worry about your own generation of wimps who never knew War and try to change the world into this mess we have now. Get back to work and I don't mean from home... And buy a Ford instead of parking a Honda at a Ford building!
And those that keep saying 'double pay'. What? Pension obligations are not funded out of profits but investments and other insurance products Ford is holding for pensioners. If Ford messes with that there will be trouble to pay like you wouldn't believe it. :)
Sure they could liquidate it and give it to leadership or grunts as a bonus but do you really want that to happen?
Worry about your own business. I gladly accept the pension as it was part of my agreement with working at Ford. In fact I view it really as deferred salary as Ford was barely competitive for the 30+ years I worked there. Not poor, not rich. Most Ford people are aware of what they can make by moving up the ladder more quickly by switching to other companies, and sometimes back to Ford. I stayed and accrued a moderate pension benefit and will not be ashamed or sorry to collect it - it was earned with every day I was in the grind that is FoMoCo.
No problem. You in turn agree to give up your extra benefits under FRP we don't get under GRP. Just wanting to play by the rules you create. :)
OP, the pension was part of the benefits package when pre-2004 employees were hired. Why should someone be precluded from taking advantage of their benefits package? BTW, this same group of pensioners were the same people who received no merits, no AICPs, and no 401k match (if they chose to participate) for several years during the 2008 bailout era. It can be argued that these people are not fairly compensated compared to those being hired in today - particularly when you factor in competence.
OP, In addition to not even having an understanding of your compensation package and how your 401k is different, you are a bit of a baby.
I should have been more explicit in the previous post so here is the correction
“ Likewise, if you were hired 2004+ and choose to never contribute to 401k then your balance will be $xxxx (sum of the monthly contributions BY FORD - NOT EMPLOYEE - plus gains). NOT ZERO like the example for pension person above.
Do the lie-perpetuateing commenters even work at ford as salaried employees?
Anyone who contributes to 401k qualifies for company matching on % of the funds YOU CONTRIBUTE as the employee.
If an employee contributes 0 (regardless of start date) the match is x% of 0 = 0.
SEPARATELY ….if you have a pension and you choose to never contribute to 401k, your 401k balance will be zero. You will only have the pension.
Likewise, if you were hired 2004+ and choose to never contribute to 401k then your balance will be $xxxx (sum of the monthly contributions plus gains). NOT ZERO like the example for pension person above.
Understand?
"And yes, I contribute enough to get the company match, but that is a separate benefit that everyone equally has access to. "
Your premise is wrong. You get company match and the pension on top! and is EXACTLY what OP was criticizing. You get double pay for your pension. And who pays for the pension debt? That's taken out of Ford's profit margin. And that is how current pay is graded.
So the younger folks pay for them older folks double retirement pay.
OP is clueless. As previous replies stated, your premise is entirely wrong.
As a pre-2004 starter, ford does NOT contribute any defined amount monthly to my 401k like the “2004 and beyond” people.
I contribute to my 401k so I still “have a 401k” but the source of funding is solely at my discretion.
And yes, I contribute enough to get the company match, but that is a separate benefit that everyone equally has access to.
Your premise is false
The younger workers get a monthly contribution from Ford they do not fund the older workers pension.
An alarmingly high percentage of Ford retirees die in their 60s/early 70s. If they took the pension well they cost Ford considerably less than what they are giving younger workers in monthly contributions. It is quite common for male Ford retirees to die within 2 years of retirement.
Now I do agree that Ford should freeze the pensions and make a one-time roll-in contribution of the pension value to 401k and thereafter treat all employees equally- including leadership levels.
Ford contributes to a retirement account for those who don’t get a pension. And those who don’t get a pension don’t have to worry about getting canned when nearing a pension milestone.
If you feel it is Unfair than quit!