Thread regarding Oracle Corp. layoffs

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As a manager, I could target an individual employee and make it very difficult for them to remain at the company. However, I couldn’t do that repeatedly without consequences because organizations monitor manager turnover rates, and a consistent pattern of employees leaving under one manager eventually raises concerns.

In practice, the process often favors whoever documents their concerns first. If I report that an employee is underperforming before they raise complaints about me, my version of events is already part of the official record.

When the employee later goes to HR claiming they’re being treated unfairly or that I simply dislike them, it can be difficult for their complaint to stand out because HR hears similar explanations from many employees whose performance issues are legitimate. As a result, even when someone’s concerns are genuine, they may sound similar to many previous cases, making it harder for them to be believed. That dynamic can create a system where the manager’s position initially carries more weight.


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Post ID: @OP+1kxwwfcj4

13 replies (most recent on top)

@ta Yes, when I built my team from scratch. But A-players get promoted, and we “inherit” underperforming teams. Underperforming teams almost always have people that need to be managed out. It’s remarkable how many employees lie that they’re working hard and put in <15 hours a week. No matter what. They brag about it all over here even lol. And good for them honestly! If I could get away with it I would.

B-players don’t bother managing people out. They are smart enough to give out 1s and 2s on annual reviews then wait for the layoff to do their jobs for them. If you PIP someone, then a hiring freeze hits before you backfill you lose that req forever. Thats why so many sh---y people are still here at Oracle. Sometimes it’s better to have a warm body even if they’re terrible than nobody at all.

C-players are worse. They aren’t capable of even hiring good talent to backfill, they just hire unperformers. Couldn’t even recognize one to manage them out.

And F players, we all can think of examples.

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Post ID: @tt+1kxwwfcj4

@rw That's ordinary C-player stuff. Managers often do not even know their direct reports' profiles - they use 1:1, if any, for status checks. Experience says, good managers find the strengths of the engineers and reassign them where they perform better within the company, or directly ask them to leave well in advance, and offer any help as needed.

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Post ID: @ta+1kxwwfcj4

I can tell you have never managed a large team (15+ / 2 levels). Almost every organization actually rewards turnover if it’s employees you make known that you want gone. If you don’t have any turnover you’re seen as soft / not VP material.

And I know that sounds like encouraging everyone to be a di-k. But think about it… the lowest performing members of your team drag EVERYONE down. Your team and other teams.

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Post ID: @rw+1kxwwfcj4

@d1 Well from experience they are very good at either knee je-king, tilting their heads to the side and saying "and how does that feel" or just ignoring anything to do with humans full stop.

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Post ID: @rd+1kxwwfcj4

@dn oh. now it makes sense. for those who thinks Oracle and its managers are toxic haven't worked in Amazon. their managers are the definition of toxicity.

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Post ID: @f9+1kxwwfcj4

You are quoting an excerpt from a podcast hosted by Ryan Peterman, interviewing an ex-AWS leader (very up there in title).

This is all true. I had an ex-AWS snake try this on me. By the time they get the first strike, they've had buy in from multiple people. Senior directors, HR, and have coordinated their stories, or attempted to, with various people above you, like IC5's.

Your only defense is hard evidence proving it's a lie. That instantly makes HR flag you as a possible lawsuit and gets your manager to back the fu-k up in the shadows as they plan their next strike. Use this time to find a job, or giddy-up with an employment lawyer.

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Post ID: @dn+1kxwwfcj4

wait... people talk to HR and expect something to happen?

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Post ID: @d1+1kxwwfcj4

why would you need to target an individual in the first place? If it is for cause, you can fire them. If it isn't for cause, then you are a pr--k. In both cases, there are enough rifs happening that you can sweep people in those.

I've seen some good managers here, but more and more, they leave and are replaced by bad ones.

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Post ID: @bg+1kxwwfcj4

Good managers cannot survive for long at O. This happens to them --> "I could target an individual employee and make it very difficult for them to remain at the company."

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Post ID: @b1+1kxwwfcj4

@a9 the system favors managers. Managers have the ability to document with the company concerns about an employees performance without triggering a formal process. Employees don't have this ability to build a case officially. If they file a concern or incident it is immediately escalated to being a complaint which has to be resolved. The company should allow employees to file concerns without triggering a formal response unless the employee wants it to be triggered.

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Post ID: @aq+1kxwwfcj4

@a9 so the courts are biased... if they favor one side or the other how do you consider the outcome to be justice? Don't get me wrong, I think courts every where are are questionable. For example, in the US if you tell me the summary of the case and then who appointed the judge I can tell you the outcome with a high degree of accuracy before courts decision is released. Politics and personal opinion have nothing to do with justice but they clearly have an impact.

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Post ID: @ap+1kxwwfcj4

@OP I too am a manager- however I will document everything. Both ways. Up the chain of command is usually where things trip up so if you document the incompetence then you have an opportunity to take Oracle to court if you need

In Canada & EMEA, the courts are employee friendly.

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Post ID: @a9+1kxwwfcj4

It is really disgusting to read that and nothing surprise me about this place. The good employees were already laid off, many employees who are still on the sinking boat is thrilling each day because of insecure situation. Many well qualified employees had already left that place and found a their own way as they did not agree with work style of O. The longer you stay, the more frustrated you feel.

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Post ID: @a5+1kxwwfcj4

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