With all the high inflation, how are the other tech companies doing with raises? Telling workers to just deal with it and no raise, and face some attrition? Or giving some retention raises? In the past Cisco's pay was competitive, but I think things may be falling behind the average due to lack of raises. Probably some new-hires getting similar money to 10 year vets. : @6wau+1m5nF6cl
I wish someone would make a comparison regarding raises at Cisco and other companies.
@3ezg+1mcpTsZs, so explain the math to us dummies.
As I see it, an IPF of 1.25 means taking my baseline bonus dollar amount and multiplying it by 1.25, or a 25% increase of the total bonus amount. If you increase a smaller percentage by the same amount, you get a smaller bonus.
Assuming a $100K salary, and the grade 8 bonus percentage of 12%, then the numbers look like this:
If my bonus was 12% of $100K before, then with a 1.0 IPF, my bonus was $12K and my total compensation is $112K. With a 1.25 IPF, then the bonus is 1.25 * 12% * 100K and my total compensation is $115K.
After the remix, my pay is now $105K with a 7% bonus because they shifted 5% of my bonus pay at a 1.0 IPF to my base pay. $100K + (5% of $100K * 1.0) = $105K
With a 1.0 IPF, my bonus is $7350, and my total pay is $112,350. At a 1.0 IPF, I get an extra $350. At a 1.25 IPF, then my bonus becomes $9187.50, where it was $15K before when we had a 12% bonus. Adding $9200 to $105K is $114.2K which is $800 less than before.
Where is my math wrong? Show your work.
The ELT has admitted that the rebalancing only broke even for people with a 1.0 IPF.
The headaches that come with more responsibilities are not worth the pay increase that comes with it.
I'm not passing moral judgement, just providing observations from a range of companies.
In a world of Engineer-( 1 2 Staff Senior Principal ... ) most companies won't give Senior in less than two years no matter how good you are and most employees will attain it by the ten year mark with few ever going beyond that in a career.
At well run companies this is sort of the way it has to be as there is far more individual contributor work to be done than technical leadership so by definition there are fewer opportunities to move up at each level.
The question no one wants to address is "on what basis should salary be decided?" It's rare in to be paid in proportion to your contribution, and many will rightfully resist this because sometimes everyone has to pick up some lesser tasks to keep the business going and being punished for it is a great way to drive out talent. Where it is wrongfully resisted is among those that believe they should be paid more even when they consistently deliver less. Since few have worked at companies with effective metrics most don't even know how to evaluate the effectiveness of themselves not to mention others.
To make matters worse Scrum is based on having Marketing do all the high level work down to the final Critical Design level such that any interchangeable worker unit can deliver that work in hours to days. This further dilutes the ability of those striving to grow to do so and prevents those with more specialized skills from being able to lead in narrower areas. Marketing people can bring major value to a company but not in the form of Principal Engineers.
Yup exactly @3zii+1mcpTsZs! My IPF has always been well over 1.0, so I’m actually getting less overall.
I don't understand how someone with in IPF well over 1.0 does not get basic math right. This can only happen at Cisco.
Yup exactly @3zii+1mcpTsZs! My IPF has always been well over 1.0, so I’m actually getting less overall.
@2qtb+1mcpTsZs, I'm of mixed opinions on the bonus remix.
On the one hand, that's 5% of my bonus that they can't take away. If Cisco doesn't make it's numbers and they only pay out 50% of the annual bonus, instead of losing 6% (50% of 12%), now I only lose 50% of 7% or 3.5%, so I get to keep 2.5% more of my bonus than I would have otherwise.
On the other hand, now I get the IPF bonus on 7% of my bonus instead of on 12% of my bonus, so I lose out more because I have a better than 100% or 1.0 IPF every year and Cisco only cuts bonuses sometimes. Plus, they'll use the increased pay amount from my bonus remix to say I don't need a raise next year which means that I took a 5% plus the cost of inflation paycut.
Yeah I can’t afford to work here much longer. Hiring is stalled on my team and it leaves us needing to do more with less. Albeit with the same pay. Lmao. It was a total sham that executives moved our bonus into our base pay. They talked it up like it’s sooo great!
But I'm still in the same pay grade I've been in for over 17 yrs since I started at Cisco.
Impossible.
Did you start as a Cisco fellow?
I didn't say job, role, or even job title. I said the same pay grade. Cisco keeps changing the titles, so they all boil down to "Software Engineer". Whether it's a I, II, or III, or Sr Software Engineer, they've all been at the same pay grade. I don't recall the exact title name, and it's changed over the years as they tried to "consolidate" too many titles into fewer categories.
But when you join w/ 15 yrs industry "professional" experience, and you work for Cisco off and on over 17 yrs, you end up with 32 yrs of "professional" experience. I like what I do and I don't want to promote to "manager", "technical lead", or "architect", so yes, I've been stuck at the same level that I've been at for decades and I make a good living and I'm satisfied with that. The headaches that come with more responsibilities are not worth the pay increase that comes with it. I'd rather quit at the end of the day and be done with worrying about work and spend my money doing the leisure things I want to do.
Just out of curiosity, once you "leave" I'm assuming you can get that "competitive" pay from another tech company, so why would you keep returning to Cisco knowing you'll be falling backwards every year?
In my case, I had to leave Cisco more than once for various reasons. I'd end up w/ a short-term contract gig getting 10-15% more than my Cisco role and then come back to Cisco as an employee where I'd get 1-2% more than the contractor gig, but with much better benefits. Wash, rinse, and repeat.
I didn't like the micro management at one FTE role I found after a 3-mo contract gig, and spent a year in the FTE role waiting for my sign-on bonus agreement to expire so I could jump ship and go back to Cisco. It's sad to say that as toxic as Cisco can be, it's better than the sh1tty contractor jobs or FTE jobs I've had at companies that are 500-4K employees in size.
But I'm still in the same pay grade I've been in for over 17 yrs since I started at Cisco.
Impossible.
Did you start as a Cisco fellow?
I'm not the original poster but I do note Cisco had many Engineer 4s over 60 years old. If you got out of college at 22, made Senior Engineer at any other company in three years which is equivalent to Cisco's Engineer 4, that means at 60 you've been standing still for 35 years.
As I understand it Cisco recently added the entire counting number set to each title but the reality is even if you're an Engineer 73 under the Technical Leader rank you're really still just a Senior Engineer outside Cisco. Actually most of the Technical Leaders and Principal Engineers I worked with at Cisco still wouldn't be more than a Senior Engineer outside Cisco.
I've been in for over 17 yrs since I started at Cisco
Impossible.
Did you start as a Cisco fellow?
You have to leave and come back, or transfer to entirely different BUs to stay competitive with the pay at other tech companies.
Just out of curiosity, once you "leave" I'm assuming you can get that "competitive" pay from another tech company, so why would you keep returning to Cisco knowing you'll be falling backwards every year?
I got my first ever raise at Cisco at the start of this fiscal year & it was 5%. The only way I've ever managed a pay increase at Cisco before that was to leave my current role and transfer to another BU/team in a different role. But I'm still in the same pay grade I've been in for over 17 yrs since I started at Cisco.
If it wasn't for the "median" pay increasing due to new-hires coming in and raising the median, I wouldn't be paid at the medium for my pay grade if I was still on my first couple of roles. You have to leave and come back, or transfer to entirely different BUs to stay competitive with the pay at other tech companies.
Rumor is there is an equity cycle coming up. Let's hope so.
Cisco strategically hires & retains employees that don't understand inflation. Employees that can afford a home or family in the Bay Area is dwindling. Renters are really hit hard.
Rent increase -> Rent Increase -> Tiny raise -> Rent Increase -> Rent Increase
Someone at Cisco is pocketing a ton of money from government contracts. It's not the employees.