Cisco's purpose is an inclusive future for all, yet layoffs are part of the culture. What a dichotomy! Both can't be true especially in these great financial times over the last year.
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Then in your 50s be prepared to exit Cisco whether on your own or LR. Have a solid feel for the job market in your area and what their needs are.
If you're on the software side of the self proclaimed "software company" the market isn't looking for people who can check in 104 ten line bug fixes a year for decades, many of which don't even compile and many more were cut and pasted from someone else. The only way you want to come into Cisco is through a big money acquisition and you want to leave when either you've fully vested or you can get into another startup that will pay so much you can walk away from your remaining position at Cisco. The rest are just feedstock at a machine with margins so high they can tolerate a lot of failure, and they way you're rewarded most of you don't even know where you've failed.
Cisco is the market expert at layoffs with two decades plus experience in practicing how to get rid of people. Perhaps some day they will have to pay for the discrimination based on age but for now they have a process they adhere to.
The sole responsibility of HR in Cisco is to ensure the company is not sued when older people are in the layoff. They ensure 20 something staff that provide little value are included so the average age does not get noticed by the state government.
One can learn a lot in Cisco so if you're 30s and male, participate in industry speaking engagements and push your leadership for more projects with exposure and more cash and RSUs. They will give you the HR line but push anyway. Then in your 50s be prepared to exit Cisco whether on your own or LR. Have a solid feel for the job market in your area and what their needs are.
When you are top in your department in age and money, you will experience the LR. Be prepared for it.
...and at the end of the day, Sr leadership doesn't care about the people! I know, I got treated horribly after my LR!
How is Cisco and HR supposed to treat you _after_ your LR? How does any other company treat you better _after_ the LR?
If you meant that HR treated you horribly after you were informed about being LR'd, but before your actual termination date, then your experience was vastly different than mine. If your Cisco team/peers treated you horribly once word got out that you were LR'd, that's pretty par for the course and varies from team to team. Or, if you just meant that Cisco treated you horribly _because_ they LR'd you, well, that's just life and I disagree that Cisco treats its LR'd employees terribly. Cisco gives a better than average package, and they certainly treat people better than Amazon or "X", aka Twitter, do according to the media stories I've read. I've gotten my foot in the door at several small companies doing some innovative work who've been acquired and I've been sold off or LR'd w/in 12 months of the acquisition. None of those packages were half as good as Cisco's and because they weren't as experienced in handling this process as Cisco is, it was always a shitshow. I may not like that Cisco has no respect for its employees, but most companies no longer do if they ever did. At the end of the day, I do a job and I get paid for it. And I got a nice package to get me through the search for the next job. I will say that I was lucky enough to not be LR'd during a financial crisis or during the pandemic, so finding the next job was quick and easy and allowed me to "bank" my package, so maybe that's why I don't have any hard feelings.
In my case, HR and/or IT handled all of my cases to transition my Cisco-paid mobile to personal paid, getting my mailing address updated for 401(k), ESPP, and HSA accounts since they seem to be "managed by the employer", and other issues that had to be addressed before I was terminated very professionally and competently. They also answered any specific questions I may have had, but I don't really recall having any since the paperwork was pretty clear if you can understand all the legalese.
My peers, on the other hand, did the courtesy of not hounding me w/ questions of how does this work, how do you fix that, which server has the backend jobs & needs to have generic account passwords reset every 6 months, etc. A few passed me job leads, and a few still meet w/ me for lunch for old times sake since we were a pretty sociable team who would do volunteer events and do organized run/ride events together outside of work. Most of us who are gone from Cisco still get "inside" news from the fewer and fewer who've remained, but for the most part, we've left Cisco in the rearview mirror and just enjoy the professional, and sometimes personal, relationships we created while at Cisco. It's a small world out there and I've worked w/ many people at Cisco that I worked with at other companies before Cisco and worked w/ some people from Cisco that I've worked at since Cisco. That's one reason why I don't ghost people who've been LR'd because I never know when they'll be sitting in an interview panel across from me. Karma is a bi--h and it doesn't hurt me to be nice and it has paid off dividends on several occasions.
But, really, what company ever deals w/ terminated employees after they've been let go? Why would they need to interact w/ you? Other than having your current address for the year-end W2 and other tax forms that have to be sent to you, you're done with each other.
Go buy some cheese to go w/ your whine. You need to let it go and move on.
I agree Cisco doesn't care!!!! That isn't the problem though. The real problem is Cisco leadership says they do care. All we hear from Chuck, Fran, Kelly, and EVPs are often lies or a "spin on things" pretending they care.
Sadly, many lower level HR people have drank the kool-aide and really think their leadership cares, but they have no authority, and at the end of the day, Sr leadership doesn't care about the people! I know, I got treated horribly after my LR!
"Inclusive" only if you fit the correct racial, cultural and age profile.
I can tell you for sure that the DEI questions you now find on every job application are meant to weed out white males.
We have hordes of immensely clueless employees yet LRs always manage to impact a good amount of skilled people.
Year after year this depletes the overall talent pool and casts a poor external image of the company.
As a customer I can say Cisco's code quality has been extremely poor for 30 years. Cisco has been laying off for 22 and the software seems neither better nor worse, so the assertion that the talent pool has changed significantly for the worse seems unsupported.
As problematic as Cisco's solutions are, for some business cases they're still better than their competitors which is why we still buy them.
The talented I've know who were laid off almost always ended up in a better situation. I mourn for those Cisco hires to replace them. The rest of you should know better by now
Red badges excluded
LRs are acceptable under certain dire conditions. The issue here is who Cisco targets when doing LRs. We have hordes of immensely clueless employees yet LRs always manage to impact a good amount of skilled people. Year after year this depletes the overall talent pool and casts a poor external image of the company. That's what the ELT doesn't seem to comprehend.
I thought Cisco was better than the rest, but we aren't. It is so sad.
Dodge v. Ford was settled in 1919. Unless you're over 120 years old you can't say you didn't see this coming.
Jack Welch as General Electric made layoffs a part of American culture 40 years ago which is an entire career for most and more than a lifetime for many at Cisco so you can't say you didn't see this coming.
- You aren't family
- Corporations aren't people
- Corporations don't care
- If everyone could afford to quit to explore their inner selves humanity would die in a pile of its own filth in under three weeks
- The Dunning-Kruger effect explains why most of you are far less talented than you think you are
- The book "Bull---t Jobs" by David Graeber offers a perspective on why so many jobs are essentially a net loss for companies and society
- Your friends who can't figure any of this out (most people) will turn inward towards family as they approach middle age and their skills will dwindle which means you just have to improve your skills a modest amount to easily best your peers as you seek new employment
- Many of you have bought into DEI as the boogieman in the same way that people on old TV sitcoms used to fight the wrong person when told "I bet you can't even beat him up." You handed control of your actions to the people who goaded you and then blamed the people you attacked.
In fact we are worse than the rest as we promote we are better, but know it is just a facade!
Many of you don't know it's just a facade. Again, study the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Imagine what Cisco could do if they didn’t have the threat of layoffs?
I don't have to. At various times before the first layoffs in 2001 I was both customer and developer. Most of your people and your code were of poor quality long before there was any diversity or inclusiveness or major offshoring. Once the value of the stock options and the open bar dinners with guest speakers every other night went away so did most of the few useful staff. Cisco kept a few competent people from acquisitions for the duration of vesting but once done they were out the door.
Layoffs have been part of business for 40 years and 22 at Cisco. It's baked in and makes no difference. Good people bank skills and maintain a professional network and leverage layoffs to advance their careers and the rest whine here that they aren't given $5M when they're laid off and down vote anyone who tells them to improve their skills and professional network.
The question you should be asking is "can Cisco replace the software staff (management and individual contributors) with people who can consolidate four piles of bugs and make one working operating system you can deploy on all your routing and switching hardware so you can start spending most of your money on new development instead of bug fixing?" My answer from when it was only two operating systems was "no" and decades later my answer hasn't changed, and as a customer again neither has the code quality.
At Cisco we talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. We promote that we care about people, but we don't. It is all about the bottom line. Corporate America is going down the tubes, and I thought Cisco was better than the rest, but we aren't. It is so sad. In fact we are worse than the rest as we promote we are better, but know it is just a facade! Cisco and EVPs learn to say I'm sorry instead of trying to cover their tracks all the time.
Well just the idea of ongoing layoffs sure brings out the narcissist, back stabbers and the mentally unhealthy. The politics only get thicker and credit is taken when its not warranted. Doing layoffs to keep the stock stable brings out the worst in employees. Imagine what Cisco could do if they didn’t have the threat of layoffs?
@1bio+1on0Omzb The infamous “All minorities think the same”. How Liberal of you!!
@1xby+1on0Omzb Stop trolling you are not a minority.
Inclusive for all? How about Inclusive for those that earn it. DEI is the biggest scam in decades. And this is coming from a minority. They have bullied y’all into submission. It’s very entertaining to watch and see how far y’all will let this go.