Thread regarding VMware layoffs

Decided to decline - sharing the why

After over 9 years at VMware, and having reached the P6 IC level, I was really looking forward to joining Broadcom. Yes, I received a full-time (FT) offer. However, I decided to decline.

First of all, I am a naturalized U.S. citizen (no visa issues). Located in California. I consulted with three “friend” attorneys, each of whom independently confirmed that I would be eligible for severance despite the vague language.

The offer that I received is 24% less in base salary, but it includes substantial equity value at the current AVGO price, with a higher bonus target than what I currently have.

However, the following are the circumstances that led me to decline:

  • In mid-April 2024, there will be a substantial round of layoffs, based on feedback from several Broadcom engineers who have been through similar situations at Broadcom. If I get laid off at that time, I would receive less than 60% of my current severance and only 1/8th of the vesting. Technically, I would work during this period not even for free, I will lose money to work for BC.
  • AVGO is at peak levels due to the VMware acquisition. However, after the closing and within the next few months, the technical analysis of AVGO indicates that it will return to levels before the rumors started, which is around $480 to $500. This would essentially wipe out another 30% of my stock grant. That is buy the rumors sell the news.
  • Morale is a major concern. Most engineers are likely to experience substantial cultural shock once onboarded, and within a month or so, the internal metrics and the behavior of direct managers are expected to become substantially stressful and potentially toxic. There will be almost three engineers competing for one position by June 2024. This will create a toxic environment and negatively impact morale. If you are single and your job is the only thing in your life, you might be able to work 12 hours or more a day. However, I have kids, so I would not be able to spend that much time away from my family. Expect to work over 12 hours a day at least until June 2024.
  • Bonuses may not be paid out at even 100%, even for the most aggressive and hardworking employees. In the case of CA and Symantec (I know a few engineers there), bonuses were paid out at less than 70% for most people in the first year, with a few barely reaching 80%. This is another promise that may be broken. The bonus numbers are offered to entice engineers to accept the job offers.
  • Lack of communication is intentional. Broadcom Software, the division that VMware will be merged with, has intentionally adopted a lack of communication and vague language to maintain full control post-close. After the merger, Broadcom is expected to be extremely strict because they need to filter out 50%-75% of the engineers by June 2024.
  • The job market is favorable. Whether you are planning to secure a job or raise money for your startup, it is a great time. The unemployment rate is at 4.9%, which is a positive sign. Additionally, venture capitalists are actively seeking individuals to fund and especially in bay area. Just announce it on your LinkedIn profile and see what happens.
  • International business for Broadcom is deteriorating. If you haven't heard, Broadcom is facing challenges in its international market share, especially in China and Europe. The decline began in 2022 and continues at an accelerated pace through this past quarter.
  • I thought about the scenario to accept and look for a job meanwhile, but none of the engineers at BC supported this idea because I will have no time to do anything. You will be fired if you do not work 12 hours or so a day.

I hope this information helps you make your decision. I know for a fact that five years ago, I would have accepted any offer. However, the communication, culture, and issues we have been experiencing at Broadcom are clear indicators that the next year will be the most challenging in your career, life, and definitely your health should you decide to accept.

Good luck to all of you.

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Post ID: @OP+1pixX1wZ

49 replies (most recent on top)

The WARN ACT mandates at least 60 days notice. That is 60 days pay mandatory for when main layoffs takes place like this one.

It is mandated by LAW.

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Post ID: @3yje+1pixX1wZ

Employers aren't required by law to pay severance to "at will" employees. (Most C-level executives have agreements that guarantee a payout, if they are terminated.) It's just an industry standard. Don't count on it.

The original post has some really good advice - understand exactly what these offer letters state. (I don't work for VMW and have never seen one of these letters.)

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Post ID: @3mdj+1pixX1wZ

Providing inflated bonus numbers to entice engineers to accept lowball offers is borderline criminal. It is manipulative and "legalized" fraud. Engineers accepting the offers will be scammed when they realize in April and June what is waiting for them.

If you make it to September 2024, it will start making sense. But by then, your health will have a major toll on you, let alone the 11+ hours away from home just to keep up with work demand. No life-work balance.

And I, too, can imagine the toxicity and counterproductivity when people on visas are competing with US citizens for the same 33% of the available spots.

No, thank you. I declined. I carefully crafted the letter of resignation with a lawyer's help.

BC is clearly a manipulative borderline criminal by handling the hiring in such darkness and lack of communication and vague legal language.

Lowball my offer, and you won't get me. YDGAF about me, I don't either. I work for a company that values me now because they will value me later as I work hard and help the company succeed.

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Post ID: @2try+1pixX1wZ

It's amusing how many comments here think BC HR are reading/responding/trolling this and other threads.

Broadcom runs extremely lean. HR? That's one of the corporate functions that Hock views as a necessary evil. Meaning he'll put the very minimum amount of resources there. So lean in fact each division has to do it's own recruiting and hiring (and firing). HR is mostly there from an operational sense. So they DGAF about this thread or any others for that matter. They certainly don't care if you accept or don't; and as a few have already said the "no's" are unexpectedly low and likely will result in some kind of action later in the FY. If I recall correctly, BC runs at less than 10% of HR resources than VM does.

Everything at BC is about standardization. To a fault. It's frustrating, but if you step back and examine the reasoning, it makes sense.. even if it shows complete lack of empathy and at times seems inhumane. This is why base salaries are being adjusted. To standardize against every other division, at the level that maps across. That's why bonus %s are upped; because that is the standard % for the mapped level. It's also why the RSU grants are why they are. It's neither to entice nor push anyone away. Reading into it any more than what it is, standardization, is entirely on the individual. They DGAF about the individual. If you're good, your division will reward you accordingly (if your divisional leaders are good). If you're not, you're going to drag the rest of the very lean team down and you're likely OUT even if you make it across to BC.

As for work-life balance: it depends on how many degrees you're removed from Hock. He expects his first and second degree to pretty much have no lives. Whether your leaders filter that and protect you, or effectively push the same expectation down, is up to your leaders. He's even famously stated that he wishes he could pay people enough to never take a vacation. I've personally never seen him take a vacation. Does he expect his entire company to do the same? He'd like it, but he also DGAF how a successful division is being run, as long as it's successful. So in the end, its your GM that will decide if your culture su-ks or doesn't.

Finally, as for RSUs: Those grants you're getting? You're getting them refreshed every year. So by year 3-4, you've got 4 concurrent grants firing every 3 months. That's not even including any merit-based grants that can happen mid-FY. And the refreshers are generally the same exact amount as what you were just offered. So if you got a $500k grant.. expect the same one a year from now, and so on. Meaning you've got base+bonus+$500k annual vesting by year 3. There are absolutely a metric-ton of mid-level R&D people making close to 7 figures at BC... and the senior folk? Deep into the 7s. Yes, the culture is meh, but no one can argue the comp is not ridiculously good.

BC is a mixed bag. Personally it has been good for me, even if my WLB kind of su-ks. Hock is fully transparent. You just might not like that transparency if you read too much into it.

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Post ID: @2bsf+1pixX1wZ

Where are folks getting this information from “each engineer will be competing against 2 others for one position by September 2024. You might be cut during the April layoffs or the June layoffs.”

It appears like folks on this thread who are from broadcom are saying the evaluation is yearly so it would be nice to have the source of the above information to understand the disconnect.

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Post ID: @2ekc+1pixX1wZ

BC HR is working overtime on this forum to try to convince engineers to take pay cuts and gamble by accepting these lowballing offers.

If you have been in the tech workforce long enough, you know for a fact that any employer who lowballs you with an offer is not worthy of you joining and contributing to the success of the company.

I fully agree with the OP. I too declined the offer. I am P7 in Palo Alto. The base was cut by 20+%. Higher bonus "target" and RSUs for the next 4 years are similar to what I would get in many other places.

However, it is clear that each engineer will be competing against 2 others for one position by September 2024. You might be cut during the April layoffs or the June layoffs.

If I am to accept an offer, and I know at least two layoffs are planned, what would the culture look like? How toxic will management and colleagues become for self-preservation, especially if you are on a visa and this is your last opportunity to stay in the United States? You will commit "what?" to staying and kicking everyone out regardless.

I see that this is a recipe for disaster to happen. The culture will be extremely toxic and counterproductive. It will have a major impact on your health if you are over 40, as I am.

It is also clear that the bonus will be paid at 70% in the first year. Make your calculations on that; it will barely depend on your productivity. It is designed this way to intimidate engineers.

If I were in my 20s, I would probably take this challenge and do everything to get through the first 2 years, hoping that RSUs will make a profit (which I doubt given the deteriorating BC business in Europe and China).

With that, I declined the offer, and I warn anyone still making decisions to listen to the voice of optimism trying to convince you to look at the total compensation based on the inflated numbers they gave us. The bonus will be 70%, and the average will be at $500 when you cash out. Do your math and see if your family deserves that you will be in the office for 8 hours plus a 2 to 3-hour daily commute.

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Post ID: @2dpf+1pixX1wZ

My total compensation was 3x my base salary last year. Hock is an operational genius. If you are offered a position definitely take it.

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Post ID: @1hgd+1pixX1wZ

I will choose to stay. Period.

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Post ID: @1olj+1pixX1wZ

So if I've heard nothing at all, does that mean I'm not getting an offer?

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Post ID: @1lcg+1pixX1wZ

Regarding Broadcom business in Europe is deteriorating is only true for the low cost customers who are also the most problematic. Broadcom realized that the customers who paid the least opened the most support tickets and to get rid of them they raised the renewal rates to 400%. Broadcom know exactly how to run a business for profit.

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Post ID: @1rsp+1pixX1wZ

I joined Broadcom through the CA acquisition 5 years ago when the stock was $230 and we were given 4 year stock grants. The stock not only has risen considerably but it also pays a good dividend that increases every year. My CA stock converting onto Broadcom stock was the best thing that happened to me from CA.
Broadcom has had nonexistent raises due to the uncertainty in the economy but the dividends and bonuses do make up for it.

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Post ID: @1qtc+1pixX1wZ

I respect your opinion but looks like you didnt do your due diligence. On first point according to vmware broadcom acquistion till one year of acquistion any layoffs follow vmware severance package so you will get same or more severance if laid off in april-2024. Second point if you have crystal ball that broadcom share goes down then sell broadcom share as they vest from nov-2023 to apr-2024. This is what you gain if you stay till apr-2024 = 1100/16 * 825 + vested RSU for 6 months + salary for 6 months + 6 months of prep time. If you are worried about culture in broadcom thats different story you should just take severence now without any calculations but money part you will be winning if you stay till april-2024

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Post ID: @1ufo+1pixX1wZ

At BC performance evaluations are done yearly, you have 3 ranks and there is a mandatory quota (varies by BU, etc). Good, top and bottom. You don't implicitly get fired if you're bottom, but you're first to go if cuts are required for any reason. Being bottom repeatedly does get you fast tracked. I'm not aware of a mandatory performance improvement process.

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Post ID: @1vlg+1pixX1wZ

This is the most useful post ever written around here. Thank you

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Post ID: @1qjl+1pixX1wZ
The job market is favorable.
I thought about the scenario to accept and look for a job meanwhile, but none of the engineers at BC supported this idea because I will have no time to do anything.

I agree with the above two points. I haven't received an offer letter from Broadcom, but in hindsight I'm glad I didn't, as I've just accepted an offer from an outside employer. I'm now just waiting for the acquisition to be finalized to obtain my severance package.

My new employer recently experienced layoffs but is now in the process of rebuilding their organization, so they are rehiring, albeit more cautiously with their hiring decisions. Job opportunities are available, but candidates need to stand out through LinkedIn profiles and networking.

All my job interviews were conducted virtually, none in person, which allowed me to search for new opportunities while still working. I can't imagine doing this if I were working 100% onsite at Broadcom.

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Post ID: @1jzd+1pixX1wZ

Op / semantec guy - when are the round 1 round 2 or round 3s of perf evaluation. Is it every quarter?

If someone is identified as a low performer, don’t they have to go through 6 months of performance management? (This is the disincentive for managers in VMware I think to improve the performance of employees which is why we ride on the work on the few who work hard).

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Post ID: @1nlh+1pixX1wZ

“You will be fired if you don’ t work 12 hours a day”

What this person is trying to say. Given how lean BC is run, the workload is overwhelming and in order to be successful you must work very hard to achieve the goals. If not when round 2 and round 3 happen you are at risk as you are viewed as a mediocre employee, doesn’t matter the role, it’s the same across the company. Yes the RSU’’s in the 1st year are great but it tapers off after and to what end is this ok for you? Talk to people who work there, they are miserable and don’t have the guts to leave.

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Post ID: @1mao+1pixX1wZ

Just think, it could be much worse.. Imagine if the acquisition was by Ivanti

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Post ID: @1auk+1pixX1wZ

Thank you op as well as the person from Symantec for your posts.

I wanted to share why I chose to decline as well. In my case, I was on a team which was very weak technically and leadership wise as well. We had been riding on the hard work of a very few people. I was pretty certain that our team wouldn’t last under any kind of realistic scrutiny at broadcom.

As the acquisition approached I worked past the lethargy to get ready for interviews. I am not the most prepared but I had spent some time on coding and system design which some dedicated time would fix. Even at VMware on a team that is very weak, you get su-ked into a lot of useless things. I tried to weigh the pros and cons of giving myself more time to interview while having a job at broadcom where I couldn’t coast and just making a clean tie before.

I decided that if I get 2 months off. I can use this time to finalize my preparation and be ready for job hunting in earnest in Jan. The severance would run out before I had a job in hand most likely but it would mean I have a single focus and landed in a place I want to be. In my mind the alternative was join broadcom, survive the layoffs which for me would be putting in at a minimum of 6 hours excluding the commute. And then spend time after work and my weekends getting prepared and taking time off to interview. This sounded harder to me and would place me at my ideal next position late next year.

The other factor is I don’t think (given how weak my current team is) I would make the cut for layoffs and get these few months of severance. I am lazy I admit but trust me there are A LOT of incompetent people here. Unless they laid off our whole team.

Now the downside to is that I will be without a job while interviewing which might be a little stressful but I don’t think anyone on any interview loop would hold this against me.

Let’s see how it goes. I hope things aren’t as bad as I predict for my team. I do like them even though it is embarrassing what we together achieved given so many people.

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Post ID: @1wwp+1pixX1wZ

I understand why you would reject the offer as, if what you say is true, Broadcom has violated the Merger agreement, specifically "Section 7.7 Employee Matters"

"...each employee of the Company or any Company Subsidiary who continues to be employed by Parent, Verona Surviving LLC, Verona Converted LLC or any Subsidiary thereof (the “Continuing Employees”), (i) at least the same wage rate or base salary as in effect for such Continuing Employee immediately prior to the Closing Effective Time..."

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Post ID: @1sbz+1pixX1wZ

"AVGO isn’t at peak levels due to the acquisition. It’s at peak levels because it has a minor footprint in the AI world."

This!
Don't flatter yourself, VMWARE is slightly factored in to the price but the jump from $600 to $800 was all AI. $800 is justified by free cashflow and P/E which are both very good.
It may temporarily drop if the deal falls through but AVGO financials are rock solid. we are looking at $1000 once your $8 Billion in revenue is factored in.
Your choice to turn down, hope you don't regret it like the people that did when I was part of an acquisition to AVGO.

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Post ID: @1ktc+1pixX1wZ

I too decided to decline, but I'm not going to pretend to know where AVGO stock is going or when the next layoffs are going to be.

My reasons were more personal.
However, if this deal doesn't close this resignation is null and void.

So I call this a Schrodinger's resignation :)

Hopefully the deal closes and I'll get a package. Otherwise it will be awkward as I've already been working with the next lead who will take over my position....

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Post ID: @dtl+1pixX1wZ

It is clear that within 2 months there will be a major layoff for engineers. Not because of competency. It is planned this way. Even though managers will claim otherwise.

Everyone making $180K base and above can get a pen a paper. Compare your severance today VS in April. Assume a bonus of 70% if you plan to work hard. Assume $500 AVG share price when you are eligible to vest the 1/8th of your grant.

Compare now vs 2 or 4 months from now.

I just did the math. I will lose about 10% in addition to my time for 4 months. It would not even feel like an intern working for free. I will lose money and time.

It is clear math. However, I am on H1B visa. So, I have to accept but with this, I will be just searching for another sponsor.

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Post ID: @pho+1pixX1wZ

"Since your standards of good business are VMware, you're hardly the one to judge a company with Broadcom's history and results..."

Well said, from one bad American work environment to the next.

Ignore your paycheck comparisons, and get a meaningful life instead.

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Post ID: @zdi+1pixX1wZ

Speaking from our experience going through the Symantec aquisition, addressing your thoughts point by point:

  • a lot of people were fired in approximately two rounds. Many of them should have been fired long ago anyway, they were useless, but Symc HR made it almost impossible. Some very good people got hit too, many came back later. If you're valuable and aligned to business you have very high chances of having a strong future in Broadcom.
  • AVGO is at peak levels because it's run efficiently, lean and focused on business. No feelings, no office parties, no money spent on non-business.
  • Morale about the transition is a true issue. Hard to deal with this process no matter how strong or confident you are. What kept most of us going was the fact that either way we would be subjected to change - either BC or random new job. Let's try BC since it's here anyway. The 12 hours part is simply not true. There is no such thing as overtime here, you work 8 hours. The only reasons (generally) you would work more is if you're ambitious or incompetent. There can be the occasional toxic manager but that's not Broadcom culture.
  • Bonuses are fair and aligned with corporate and BU results. Outcomes vary. We've seen them range from 70% to 135% in the past few years.
  • You won't easily find a job that pays better. It's truly fantastic. Technically 300%+ net revenue within a few years at Broadcom on the same role/grade. It does look too good to be true, but it's true. We didn't believe it either at first.
  • Communication is difficult because it's not the same for every country, region and individual. It's tough for people but you need to have patience. There's no evil plan, just no staff to do the huge work that would be required...
  • Since your standards of good business are VMware, you're hardly the one to judge a company with Broadcom's history and results...
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Post ID: @hei+1pixX1wZ

@wxf+1pixX1wZ analysts believe AVGO will go up after deal closure and then there will be a dip for short term. What price it may hit post closure?

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Post ID: @lkp+1pixX1wZ

True. AVGO ran up from the $500 to hit almost $1k only on the CFO of VMW departure. That was the only new on that after-hours. And it kept breaking up as optimism for the closing date became imminent with CFO departure.

AVG will plunge upon closing within weeks to that level again prior the optimism.

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Post ID: @wxf+1pixX1wZ

broadcom stock is not at peak levels lol. May 2022 stock was trading for 650+ when deal was announced. It pulled back to 415 in October 2022 pricing in the deal and risk of high fed rate hikes. If you looked at a chart you would realize Broadcom is getting ready to breakout here LOL. It ran from 600-800 with no news other than being number 2 to NVIDIA in the AI space. It is currently undervalued to peers like AMD or NVDA with crazy unexplainable PE's and market caps. Just think for a second all the employees who got granted shares between 300-600 how much money they're rolling in with the stock sitting at 800 now. If you get granted shares at 800 and stock runs to 1200-1500 next would you really complain? lol just because the share price is high doesn't mean its at peak levels lol. Broadcom's international business is not deteriorating lol. They just announced partnerships with Alibaba and Tencent last year. How is that deteriorating nobody said they won't announce more LOL.

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Post ID: @gem+1pixX1wZ

AVGO + VMW = What exactly is the likely outcome?

Two troubled companies combined into a much larger troubled company. Progress?

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Post ID: @qku+1pixX1wZ

BC HR in full force :-) Someone finally revealed your tactics of this blatant luring tactics.

Shame on you.This is Fraud. I am gonna draft a letter to my rep.

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Post ID: @bvz+1pixX1wZ

Another ChatGPT drafted post where you forgot to remove the hallucinations.

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Post ID: @fpw+1pixX1wZ

Thats okay but you will still be around. More than likely the deal is delayed. Can't wait to see everyone's surprised face when they realize this.

From what I can tell, too many have been accepted to come over to BC. So they will reduce headcount in batches till they're happy.

BC stock is way overhyped. It will pull back regardless of Recession / Acquisition or any other reason barring a revolutionary product, which BC doesn't innovate. They buy only well established products and reduce personal to add to their stack.

Look forward to the deal falling apart and BC being embarrassed again.

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Post ID: @hey+1pixX1wZ

100%, reducing the base (guaranteed) and increasing the bonus (conditional) and stock (conditional) is a tactic to lure engineers to accept the offers.

Note that your base is how your severance is calculated. So, there is a good 25% will be gone from any future severance just by accepting the offer.

They do that in purpose to pay less severance for the next wave in April and June.

It is blatant fraud.

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Post ID: @pvc+1pixX1wZ

Seemed rational until

You will be fired if you do not work 12 hours or so a day.

If you have friends at AVGO or any division of it, then you know this isn't true. BC expects deliverables, more than VMW by far, but no one outside your BU actually cares about you. You'll succeed and fail with your BU and product, that's it. Anyone working 12 hours a day in BC is in a failing product and probably going to get cut anyway.

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Post ID: @guw+1pixX1wZ

Looks like BC HR is watching, commenting and downvoting the truth. Ouch, I feel that the first year will be he-l.

I got a FT but did not decline. I really wishI have the patience to think like you. I am P4.

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Post ID: @uvl+1pixX1wZ
AVGO is at peak levels due to the VMware acquisition

Hahahaha

Give me a break.

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Post ID: @zex+1pixX1wZ

Damn, forget about the compensation rationale, after 9 years at VMW I would need some serious psychological therapy sessions for at least two or more years.

Then, one year alone on a desert island to complete the intense recovery process.

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Post ID: @wyb+1pixX1wZ

AVGO isn’t at peak levels due to the acquisition. It’s at peak levels because it has a minor footprint in the AI world.

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Post ID: @whu+1pixX1wZ

Good on you. Way better companies than BC out there. Nobody with a cell in their brain wants to work for the bone yard of I.t.

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Post ID: @pnd+1pixX1wZ

"Bravo and no amount of money is worth being treated like a dog"

Just for comparison purposes, if I were your dog how much would you pay me?

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Post ID: @ugc+1pixX1wZ

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