Thread regarding IBM layoffs

Yes when will those reporting to these impacted understand the implications

"The results are not final as you have till 5/30 to decide, but it appears the accept/reject numbers are currently running 18/82%" ....

Sooo it's now past May 30th ... what's the verdict? What percentage of people decided to accept the Co-Location offer??

The results are not final as you have till 5/30 to decide, but it appears the accept/reject numbers are currently running 18/82 % Very close to the 15/85% IBM was planning for.

Stop racist Indian supremacists ruining IBM with their pro-India focus, and Indian-only implicit bias hiring practices!

It's International Business Machines, an American company, not India Business Machines.

I think Lowell, MA is where a lot of the Watson AI and Automation software is so it's not just legacy there. But you guys are right they buy companies and get the stock to move up because of currency differences, spin offs, are acquisition. The stock goes up only for 1 year before all 4 quarters of changes reflected then Leaders get the big bonus / stock options. Right after 1 years the revenue and earnings are back down on yearly quarter companersions unless the dollar value down and there revenue international shows high earnings.

David Ramsey said it best!

https://www.tiktok.com/@daveramsey/video/7214142515942051118?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc

Ok, it'll be interesting to see how things pan out in Ottawa, wasn't aware that the Fred lab was shutdown!! I think Cognos is bigger than QRadar though, isn't all of development there?

US Band 7 PM salary approx 130-140k USD
Kochi Band 6B PM salary 24-28k USD
Simple Math - move PM roles to Kochi and hire 4-5 to 1

That is what some Band 7 finance analyst in low cost country is driving.
India Business Machines may be closer than ever.

Does anyone have a copy of the email to share? The verbiage?

Thanks in advance

As both SW products have reached “sustain” mode, I expect them to be consolidated into Toronto. Very much like all of the legacy is moving to Lowell. Again due to Canada’s stricter labor laws, perhaps IBM will use some common sense NAH just kidding When has IBM used common sense

Fred took major layoffs and the QRadar dev site was closed, so there won't be any growth there. My understand is that software has stopped hiring in Ottawa and groups in Ottawa are now backfilling by hiring in Markham. QRadar has also been staffing in Markham lately.

Fragmented teams and forcing all of the hiring into the highest cost option of the three. Markham also su-ks for renting so new hires are not loving it.

Curious how things will play out for Canada. Markham is the strategic site but Ottawa and Fred still exist for Congos and QRadar. It doesn’t make sense to pull a similar move here and force everyone to Toronto. At the same time, I don’t see them adding these two sites back to the strategic list. Also, we know they won’t just try not to expand the move outside of the US.

Does anyone have any idea of how many folks were impacted with this announcement? You would think the 4 locations were picked to minimize business disruption given that IBM knows there is an 80-90% chance that if you are impacted, you will not move. I have to agree with one of the previous posters that NA headcount is certainly in the bullseye and India is rushing to become 50% of IBM’s worldwide headcount. We can do some back of the envelope math and say the extra 1 billion in cost take out/savings (announced on Jan call) is most likely split 40% NA, 35% Northern Europe, and 25% rest of the world. That equates to approx 5k NA, 4.5k Northern Europe, and 3.2k rest of the world. Remember these numbers are in addition to the 400 million spent in 1st q (announced on April call). The 400 million was most likely split the same way with weather also being spun off.

@2ybx+1shcHnjv

Arvind does not give a cr-p, he is on his way out, probably end of 2024 or sometimes in 2025... he has promised Wall Street another 2B of FCF, so he has to cut costs aggressively to make the FCF so that he can cash in his big bonus before leaving. It is all about getting your pockets lined up with money, the future of the company, none of these execs care.

What happens to teams that have 30% remote workers who plan to bounce?

IBM is only hiring overseas. They are laying off workers or forcing leave aggressively. Seems they want India to be the home of IBM.
The job market in tech is terrible right now.
Unionize!

You knew it was coming: @OP+1sdzu8nU .
We telegraphed our intentions but apparently no one was listening. Get you butts into the office or get out!!

Cordially,

Lou and AK

IBM didn't need to hire Bain and McKinsey to tell them to focus on mainframes, because they've been doing it all along. Any old timers who were around in the PS/2 and OS/2 days can recall how IBM treated the personal computer as nothing more than d-mb terminals next to the "real computer" (the mainframe). That attitude existed in the 1980s and 1990s, and it still exists today.

The mainframe-only path will focus IBM to a pinpoint of irrelevancy in the world IT market. The "hybrid cloud" and "port stuff to Red Hat Linux" approach may extend IBM's life for a while, but customers will keep on working to find alternatives outside the IBM ecosystem. To many modern businesses, IBM is simply TOO MUCH. The machines are too big, the staff requirements are too many, it takes too long to implement, and IBM wants TOO MUCH money.

While IBM tries to sell big-a-s machines for huge amounts of dough, look for the rest of the market to do everything they can to replace the hulking IBM stuff. New processor, computer and accessory designs will come out from other vendors to implement the RAS, crypto and other features that were once available only on mainframes. These features will be dirt-cheap (relatively speaking), available from companies like Nvidia. They will be available on a piecemeal basis (buy just what you want), or if you want you can buy them as part of a cloud deal from one of the successful cloud vendors (Google, Microsoft, Amazon). New software will be written for the new environment(s), and eventually IBM's stuff will be ditched.

This may take 15-20 years, but it will happen eventually. IBM's cost footprint is simply too big for most players to support.

For a company that pushes integrity in business and the BCG. What does it all really mean if your willing to gut your own people who helped you built this castle called the IBM cloud/AI/mainframe. I understand now that the BCG actually stands for "Backdoor Cash Grab". In front of the public eye pretend your actually a respectable company but behind closed doors, shut it down boys we need the money for C-level bonuses and shareholder pats on the back. Computer people are a dime a dozen, nobody is special, everything is commodity including their own values that are built on a shiny exterior but internally only cares about $$$ and great progress for the few willing to live in this ecosystem, if you want to call it that. The company built by Thomas J. Watson is only a sad shadow of it could have been.

When IBM/Redhat hired McKinsey the die was cast. McKinsey just reiterated what Bain had recommended in 2018 for legacy IBM. Downsize and focus on being good at a few things rather than being mediocre at all things. IBM is applying that recommendation to their new “NICHE” strategy (AI/hybrid cloud/SW modernization using LINUX) which is focused almost exclusively on mainframe. The Bain/McKinsey pitch was/is if you focus on mainframe, you can dump approx 60-65% of the remaining IBM infrastructure and support teams. That’s exactly what has been going on over the last 5-10 years (110 billion down to 60 billion over time). Expect IBM to emerge from this restructuring as a lean NICHE mainframe player (225k headcount) who doesn’t compete with the cloud giants, but rather partners with them, and is expert at what they do best (eg mainframe) Don’t believe me? Just look at IBM’s previous purchases (redhat 30 billion, apptio 5 billion, hashicorp 6.5 billion, etc etc). IBM isn’t investing in traditional IBM, but is rather investing in “niche” mainframe IBM. The SW location offerings were the current tell as to where IBM is taking the company.
Lowell = primarily legacy mainframe offerings Keep the money makers
RTP = primarily redhat LINUX offerings Rewrite cobol offerings in LINUX
Austin = primarily power ISV offerings Support large ISV’s who invested in IBM
SVL = primarily all new AI/hybrid cloud/SW modernization offerings reimagine what mainframe offerings will look like

Everything else goes to India in sustain skeleton crew mode. Milk the IP

https://www.theregister.com/2024/03/27/red_hat_hires_mckinsey/

NOTE IBM knows that 80% of you that are impacted will not move It’s already been mapped out. If you wish to remain with IBM, the growth area will be SVL and RTP while Lowell and Austin will be in sustain mode

Alright, not gonna lie, thanks to Covid I've been mostly coasting doing WFH for the last 4 years and yet somehow always getting raving reviews by every manager. I expected this day to come at some point, where I'd actually have to tidy up my resume and coding challenge skills, but this came as a surprise. Never thought they'd be this d-mb and force EVERY dev in the US to do this.

So what would be the best strat here? Obviously I'm not moving, and I don't want to be jobless in 30 days either.

Should I pretend I'll be staying? What about the relocation money? I heard they actually do follow up and check up that you're actually trying to move. Just trying to maximize the amount of money I can get while trying to jump ship to another company that values me, WFH, and might as well get a hefty salary raise by doing so.

The truth is probably a lot more simple...the company has run out of cash and management is doing anything they can to stop spending money. Shuttering LOBs entirely is unacceptable to the stockholders for various reasons, so it's just churn and burn without any semblance of a long-term management strategy. Mouth off the latest buzzwords (AI) at presentations to maintain public interest, but behind the scenes everything is dead or dying.

I think this is an easy way for IBM to backdoor employees and save money without saying hey we laid off thousands of people instead we gave them an option to relocate and they forfeited. Great way to streamline the operation and give AI that amazing center stage to shareholders. This will look amazing on paper.

That amount doesn’t even cover lease cancellations for apartments!

To the couple of people who I've seen post they'll milk the job until either they find a job or November while running the clock, I only have to say:

This is the way...

"I can only imagine what inflation would do to that cost today. $2k or $3k doesn't cover much."

The Uhaul boxes and, if it's a long haul, it's still not enough.

Here's my plan: spend until May 30 "deciding" and therefore not doing much IBM work, then tell them I will accept the relocation, knowing I will have to pay back the $5K. I will spend the next month and however many weeks after that looking for a better job. Worst case, by the time November arrives, IBM has paid me far far more than $5K, which, will probably not have been spent, and therefore will not be owed either.

The only people who should take this offer are those that were wanting to move to that city anyways. I wouldn’t move period, let alone if they aren’t paying for my relocation costs which would include 6% commission on a million dollar property plus house or closing costs on both sides, let alone not being compensated for the low interest rate I have on my house now versus what I would get now. As others have said, those that were to take this will be out soon enough since it’s obvious the intent is for people to leave on their own without paying as much severance.

Is this only in the US?

I could offer a professional badge swiping business for IBM strategic sites and make more than working for IBM for only 3 days a week at this rate.

Do they give you a list of "strategic locations" to move to? And if so, which ones?

Bangalore, Hyderabad, and Kochi.

$5K is a joke. A quick Google reveals that average relo costs for a renter are $19K-24K and for a homeowner $72K-97K. $5K will barely cover airfare and travel expenses for you and your family to get to the new location. Moving company cost for a 4-5 bedroom house cross country can easily be $10K-15K. Then there's, you know, actually selling your house, finding a new place to live, buying it, etc. and all the costs associated with that. Let me guess, they're also giving people a whole day off work to execute the move?

They only gave me one option, Austin.

Do they give you a list of "strategic locations" to move to? And if so, which ones? Or do they just say that it's your choice, as long as move within 50 miles of any IBM office?

I relocated to RTP back in the day (26 years ago, how time flies) when ISSC was still around. The move was around 1000 miles, for a total relocation cost of around $12k. This covered moving service between two cities, reestablishment of utilities, temporary apartment rental costs, etc. IBM had various rental companies move everything, including vehicles. Salary was paid of course, even accounting for several weeks downtime during the move.

I can only imagine what inflation would do to that cost today. $2k or $3k doesn't cover much.

Confirmed. Impacted by this a--backwards policy. Time to clean up the resume and look beyond this trainwreck.

I'll be frank, I've been job hunting since the recent massive RA and this post indicates that I should double my efforts. AK seems to be following GE's footsteps and, at the rate he's going, he might achieve his goal of running IBM to the ground.

Confirmed had discussion with my manager today. Waiting on email confirmation with the details.

$2k + 3k!! If that doesn’t tell you IBM’s expected outcome, I don’t know what does.

I had my 1:1 meeting today about forced RTO.

Decide by May 30th, relocate by November or take 2 months severance pay.

Relocation allowance is $2K + $3K moving expenses w/ 1 year committed to work for IBM or repay required.