People still with Intel, do you notice that no hiring manager wants to consider older well deserving internal candidate for the open position Amy more? The same people who we're bending backwards to hire, now don't want to even talk. No one says it, but it is very clear that there is a systematic effort to make life difficult for older employees.
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@wiw - excellent post. I'm in the same boat with only 33 years. Most of the newbies feel entitled and threatened by us useless old farts. This years ERP was my wish come true. Peace and happy 4th of July.
I'm still here but I've always saved assuming I will lose my job.
Good for you
Oh and by the way a lot of Americans eat eith their mouths open unfortunately.
@IbmyU7i-2wiw is an old fox and is saying "Grapes at intel are sour". Bwwwwaaaaahhhh
Intel is shooting itself in the foot by getting rid of their experienced people and replacing them with people based only on their race and the plumbing between their legs and not knowledge and skill. You young people here who believe that it’s a good thing for Intel to push out their veteran employees, thinking that they are past their prime in innovation and skills, shows how stupid and inexperienced you are in the real world. The veteran employees are the ones who know what to do, and what not to do, to get the job done. They know what things can derail a product in the very early design phases. RCGs (Recent college grads) do not.
You RCGs say that veteran employees are unwilling to learn to do things differently. In many cases that is true because the veteran employees have already tried many ways of doing things when they were RCGs. They found what worked, what did not work, long before many of you RCGs were born. So why should the veteran employees go and try “doing things differently” again when they have already found the most efficient and cost effective ways to engineer designs? Tell veteran employees a different way to do something that they haven’t already tried. If it is something that has not been tried, and it works better than the current methodology, then I would say use it.
Before I took VSP last April, I had worked for Intel for more than 34 years doing silicon design and package design. I found that every time we brought in some RCG MS or PhD grads, we had to train them how to work, how to approach a problem, how to use Outlook, how to use Excel, how to use PowerPoint, how to apply some analytical thinking, how to know when to stop analyzing scenarios, and how to apply an engineering solution. In many cases, we even had to teach them how to compose an email, how to write coherent English sentences, how to present to a large group, and how to speak in front of people. I found it pathetic that we had to waste so much time and energy teaching them how to do their job. You RCGs may be book smart, but with few exceptions, you could not engineer a solution for finding your way out of a paper bag.
Those who think I am some old fart whining and moaning that I got forced out of Intel, and am now jobless, I will tell you that I don’t care anymore and here is why:
I don’t have to work anymore because I saved and planned for retirement for 34 years. I took the “Rule of 75” retirement, and the cart full of money from the offered VSP. That money and my 401(k) works for me now.
I don’t have to get up every weekday morning to drive in rush hour traffic for 2 hours and do the same after work.
I don’t have put up with BK’s bullshit policies and Richard Taylor’s HR childish ethics yearly class requirements.
I don’t have to deal with an unfair Ranking and Rating system where my employment status is based on an arbitrary algorithm instead of merit and accomplishment.
I don’t have to deal with a bunch of RCGs and/or H1B visa engineers who cannot write an email in comprehensible English any better than my 8 year old 2nd grader, and who cannot drive or park a car properly, and who cannot chew their food with their mouth shut at the lunch table. Didn’t your mothers teach you any manners?
I don’t have to go to endless useless meetings to watch PowerPoint presentations given by a bunch of RCGs who cannot speak intelligibly.
I don’t have to listen to a CEO and upper management tell me year after year that Intel made record profits but in the same breath, tell me that there is little money for raises, and that the profit sharing contribution will only be 6% or less, and that my health care costs are going up, and that the Bonuses and RSU grants will be smaller. But I am expected to work harder next year and pull in schedules and cancel my vacation time while they spend billions buying back Intel stock, a stock that has been stagnant for over 16 years.
No, I don’t care anymore. I have wasted too many calories dealing with Intel crap. The Intel I knew has faded away. No longer will I bust my assfor a CEO, a board of directors, and an upper management who are nothing but a bunch of yuppie shareholders with unrealistic expectations for unsustainable profits. Why should I?... when there is no possibility I can get a share of the yearly record profits.
Intel will be gone in less than 10 years. And by then, I hope to have exhausted my SERMA account.
@jer, so true, so sad. Intel lost its soul, and at present, would not regain it back.
@jer-You are spot on!
Use anti-aging cream.. that would solve the Intel age discrimination issue!!
@IbmyU7i-1pkk I totally disagree with you.
As a former Chandler, AZ (Ocotillo site) employee with nearly two decades of direct observation (and subsequent consequential personal impact) of the actions of Intel's board and other leaders - they are more interested in behavioral studies, physiological experiments in the workplace, social engineering and Fabian office politics than actually rediscovering the principles that made Intel an innovative company that encouraged open discussion without fear of reprisals where honest efforts to improve the product and develop individuals to their greatest potential was the order of the day.
Intel has become the piranha club, where first level factory managers/engineering leads are so disconnected physically and mentally from their direct reports that lies from peers and stakeholders about "individual contributors" can pass for truth, resulting in HR involvement before a person can say "what just happened". Whether lies reach their ears in a 1-on-1 or on a brag sheet it is assumed truthful, and guilt is the assumption de jour. A place where political correctness, pollspeak, diversity, reverse discrimination and inclusion have encroached like a greedy parasite to the point where the host system is overwhelmed to the edge of death. Where psychobabble passes for intelligence. Where the mad run the asylum and cannot find the exit to sanity.
Intel may manage to stay afloat in the near term, and may get lucky enough to reinstate the principles that once made it great. However, the odds are against them, since the group-think, yes-man, PC culture has taken root so strongly. I am divesting myself as fast as possible from Intel stock, would encourage others to do the same. Intel has lost its soul, and isn't currently interested in regaining it.
I have to shake my head at this agent provocateur post (see in quotation marks below)
Even if written seriously and meant not to provoke, it is so full of malice and stereotypes to render it impotent. The write clearly is delusional if they believe their own bull$hit - as if they aren't growing older with each passing year. Just wait pal, your day is coming. Sooner than you think you will be judged by the false paradigms you encouraged to flourish. Fool.
"6 hours ago by Anonymous | Post ID: @IbmyU7i-1odh
The reality is that nobody wants team members that are too old to learn new things. Any manager would prefer a cheap RCG that is highly flexible and eager to learn new things, as his mind is a clean slate where anything can be written. That being said, Managers also prefer folks in their 30s that have got experience leading projects and making things happen. One or two highly experienced folks would be the architects. Others - mostly 45+ folks are really a burden on any employer. Sorry to say, but most of the old folks are very adamant and not flexible at all. The have a specific way to doing things and will never change it - come whatever may. There is also serious attitude issue seen among the elderly as if they think having the job is their birth right and they should be paid whether they work or not. Such thoughts are the primary reasons why they get kicked out in every layoff event. This is not just in intel - it is in all enterprises and all over the world - Not just in USA. I have worked in the Japan, Europe and the USA and have seen this happening everywhere. So, the message is you cannot change the world. Hence, change according to how the world treats you. Else, you will be on the streets."
Got ISP on 6.24 despite working on an MSECE which Intel was reimbursing me for. Had straight A- going. Was ready for new DE role after sabbatical. Not gonna happen. I'm creative and willing to start on any new idea. Certifying up on a few things now, too. I see it as my escape and I'm ready to disrupt directly after a little break to re direct. Haha, the cats out of the bag!
Businesses want profit so tendency of replacing high salaried people with cheaper labor is understandable, provided cheaper labor can perform at the same level. However, not all older people are high salary and not all young replacements are cheaper. The problem is the perception and stereotyping. So called "stagnant" people are performing at the level they are paid other they would have walked out long time back. The reality is younger managers don't like older people because rather than drinking cool-aid, they would question the decisions which makes them "difficult to manage". I have been fortunate to have much younger but more mature and less insecure manager, but that's very rare these days.
The reality is that no one really wants to work with SOME of the URMs hired over recent years because they aren't as qualified as they should be but here hired into some positions because of their gender or race. Intel really blew it in recent years when they abandoned meritocracy and decided to play with false political meme. It generally breeds distrust and lowers morale. Some of the newer engineers I've noticed and heard from others are more versed in being SJW's than they are having a solid engineering education capable of critical thought which is critical to engineering. And then there are the 'social engineers' in HR who believe in this false paradigm(D&I) but revel in their current sense of self importance to implement it. Here again is a lack of critical thought helped by an eager willingness to drink the Kool-aid.
The reality is this will come back to bite Intel big time.
The reality is that nobody wants team members that are too old to learn new things. Any manager would prefer a cheap RCG that is highly flexible and eager to learn new things, as his mind is a clean slate where anything can be written. That being said, Managers also prefer folks in their 30s that have got experience leading projects and making things happen. One or two highly experienced folks would be the architects. Others - mostly 45+ folks are really a burden on any employer. Sorry to say, but most of the old folks are very adamant and not flexible at all. The have a specific way to doing things and will never change it - come whatever may. There is also serious attitude issue seen among the elderly as if they think having the job is their birth right and they should be paid whether they work or not. Such thoughts are the primary reasons why they get kicked out in every layoff event. This is not just in intel - it is in all enterprises and all over the world - Not just in USA. I have worked in the Japan, Europe and the USA and have seen this happening everywhere. So, the message is you cannot change the world. Hence, change according to how the world treats you. Else, you will be on the streets.
Old equals expensive salaries duh.
Diversity will make intel great again
Yes, the Diversity&Inclusion mantra is effectively affirmative action. URM's are being targeted for special treatment during focal (HR pushes to not give a negative message to a URM if they can find a non-URM at the same level or not to far above them in the lower tier of the focal distribution) and they are pushing for URM hires and promotions over non-URM's. You'll see quite a few women being promoted over recent years -- some very deserving, others not so. This has been softly pushed down from the top the last 5 yrs or so, but really pushed hard the last 2. There's evidently a big influence from our current political 'leaders' of a Progressive agenda. They even brought Jesse Jackson in a couple years ago to try to sell the message. It's also ironic that our Diversity 'czar' is a URM and I've heard those on the Diversity committee are all URM's! They evidently preach 'diversity and inclusion' but don't practice it.
Inclusion means getting rid of white males over 50 years old.
Problem is management is mandated for affirmative action. It's not your age it's your sex/race.
HR will push for promotion for females and question ever promotion for males.
In my (limited) experience, it does seem like people bring value proportional to their years of experience. That includes younger people who bring very little value (with a few awesome exceptions).
And I rarely see older people "set in their ways". I think that's a stereotype with little truth behind it.
If you bring value proportional to your years of experience, the you are more than well come in my org.
Im pushing 50 and still inside and I haven't noticed this problem to be that pervasive. Sure, some groups that are already heavily weighted to senior employees tend to prefer to hire people with less experience and lower grades to balance out the team and make for an easier focal distribution. But now, due to the fact that those who are recently gone due to ISP/VSP/ERP tended to be older employees with experience, there is now a big gap in senior experience in the company. I, a senior IC, actually have more interest in my skills now as very recently I'm getting inquiries from others if I want to join their team.
Yeah, the reasoning is they don't want someone already set in their ways and want someone they can mold to their liking