Thread regarding Cisco Systems Inc. layoffs

Anatomy of a Layoff-repost

REPOST ... but all the signs are here for the end of Q2

Let me give you a peek into the workings of an LR (Source: @IGXXwSC-1gdx ).

About a 3 months in advance you start to see the warning signs. Backfills don't get approved, OpEx gets slashed, budget pressure ramps up. Some examples of budget pressure ramping up, travel freezes, capital requests at or below previous levels are asked to be pushed out to next quarter. This is them starting to see what their minimal OpEx level is to establish a baseline.

About 2-3 months in advance, someone usually at the director level, sometimes at the manager level sometimes at the VP level, gets asked to start preparing data, this could be as obvious as a ranking of all employees against a specific set of criteria. or as subtle as put together a list of what everyone is working on and their role.

About 1 month in advance this list is set. That list then goes through scrutiny by the lawyers, HR, etc. to make sure that it is legally defensible. Have we disproportionately targeted any individuals in protected categories in groups that are not being entirely eliminated. For example if you have a team of 10, 2 people being laid off and you target two GL 10s in a protected category leaving 4 GL10s not in a protected category and 2 GL 8s not in a protected category, expect HR to tell you to change the list. This is analyzed at various levels,

Two weeks before the layoff, the lists are finalized and all of the data needed starts to get generated, they start preparing the packets (electronically), start training HR, preparing the manager materials etc.

One week to a few days before they give the manager training. Here's what you can say, here's what you can't say. Read from your script. Don't deviate, don't engage in any discussion.

One to two days managers are told to schedule time with those employees impacted especially if they are remote, or frequently don't work in the office. Managers are also given access to the packets for those impacted employees to review them.

This year if the timelines being bandied about are correct there may be some changes to the last few steps. We are expecting them to tell Wall Street in the Earnings Meeting and do layoffs the next day.

So the reason it is too late is the list is already set. You are on it or you are not. Changing it at this date would be very difficult. About the only shot would be if they already have a problem they have to fix because the lawyers have chimed in saying you may be in a bad position and need to change a person on the list.

I fully expect to get hit this time. Having had to be on the other side of this more times than I care to remember, I'm actually looking forward to it in some ways. I'm not looking forward to looking for a new job on the wrong side of 40, but I am hoping I'll find something where I never again have to sit across the desk from someone, who just had a baby, bought a new house, or had health problems in their family in the past year, and tell them that due to "business decisions, Cisco has decided to eliminate a number of positions in the company, that your position is one of those impacted and that effective immediately your job duties are ended. Here is your packet of information, and you have 2 weeks to find another position within Cisco. If you have any questions about this you can contact this HR person."

The worst part for me is that I've almost (but not quite) become immune to it. The first few times I had to do it, I literally sat in my office and cried afterward. The last time, I just went on to my next meeting with a pit in my stomach.

So I'll wish you all the best of luck. Whether that means you get lucky and are impacted or get lucky and are not, is a subjective decision only you can make.

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Post ID: @OP+Lf8hzn8

17 replies (most recent on top)

Protected classes: LGBTQ, African American, Latin American, Women over 40. It is not that they are immune, but if one of them is on it, there are a ton of meetings to prove why.

The OP of this message is correct. If you work in any tech company, you know this is a common thing for management. First time managers have emotional and psychological issues with it, but it is what they signed up for. They are handed a script with exactly what they can say and nothing more. When I was let go, the manager had paper with about 5 lines on it, read it word for word, and asked if I had any comments because questions would not be answered. For me, I told the fat manager that I no longer cared and relieved about it. I did tell him that I will reiterate the same script if I saw him dying from a heart attack and have to think very hard on my personal beliefs whether to do anything. "Because of budget cuts, my ability to perform CPR is not possible, here is a number to contact HR to discuss."

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Post ID: @lncza+Lf8hzn8

How come I never had a manager like this?

the manager is then expected to lead and motivate

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Post ID: @1Xwal+Lf8hzn8

Beyond the layoff itself, the manager is then expected to lead and motivate the teams remaining. You can only do this if you treat people with dignity, have their trust that you will do the right thing by them and are driving towards a more positive future. Each time there is an LR round this trust erodes. Even if they know it is out of the control of the manager, repeated cuts mean there is a constant sense of unease and distrust of what is next. HR and the ELT talk proudly about building effective teams and bring in great speakers and consultants, but none of these words will ever be effective if the reality on the ground is fear and uncertainty. The managers themselves have bills and families to support so they too have to put up with a failing system and the knowledge that they can't lead and support their teams in the way they would wish.

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Post ID: @5aca+Lf8hzn8

@Lf8hzn8-2ycs asked:

Can someone clarify what / who the employees in "protected categories" are? I know in the past that women over a certain age could be considered "protected," but I have seen firsthand older females getting the boot in LRs.

This is actually an excellent question as it is one of the extremely misunderstood topics and is poorly understood by many managers, directors etc. For a better understanding I'll refer you to the EEOC website: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/

Basically it means you cannot discriminate against people based on any of these protected categories. Where it comes into play during lay-offs is all lay-off lists are examined to see three things:

  1. Is there any concrete evidence that anyone was targeted because they are in a protected category? e.g. was someone stupid enough to send an e-mail saying, "when you create your list of people for this round make sure you put any over 40 females on the list first."

  2. Are any of these categories over represented in population of the people being impacted when compared to the population of people in the organization. This could indicate that people were being targetted even though there is no specific evidence to point to.

  3. If they are over represented then is there other factors that are clear cut and would stand up in a court of law that makes it clear that the reason the person was impacted was not because of their status as a member of a protected category.

In summary, being a member of a protected category does NOT guarantee you are safe. It only means that if you are identified as a target to be impacted there will be extra scrutiny by HR/Legal to make sure it is justifiable.

All of that being said, Cisco has gotten very creative in how they target older workers. As I understand it there are some pending lawsuits in this regard.

For example, say they want to get rid of over 40 workers. They will do one or both of the following:

They will target by grade level, possibly throwing in a token under 40 worker. "We are eliminating GL12 positions as we do not have GL12 level work for these people to do." Alternately (and this is what my group did) they will eliminate an entire team, then open new reqs on other teams for lower grade levels. "Well we eliminated the entire , of those impacted it is a remarkable coincidence that everyone under 40 found a new position within Cisco."

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Post ID: @3lgv+Lf8hzn8

The Beat (into submission) replaced the breakfasts. just another memory.

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Post ID: @3sws+Lf8hzn8

It's sad when Cisco increases the frequency of LRs and decreases the frequency of "Birthday Breakfasts (with Chambers)".

I had forgotten about those. 10 yrs at Cisco with 5 red & 5 blue, and I never got an invite to a "Birthday Breakfast" during my blue years.

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Post ID: @3bxt+Lf8hzn8

It's sad when Cisco increases the frequency of LRs and decreases the frequency of "Birthday Breakfasts (with Chambers)".

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Post ID: @3qtk+Lf8hzn8

So accurate it's scary

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Post ID: @2ugx+Lf8hzn8

Great post, OP, and it's exactly what is said. I guess some messages just don't need refining ... I'd love to hear about what functional areas are being cut -- marketing, finance (accounting?), HR ...

I think this has become business as usual for leadership and they can't come up with some innovative way to avoid layoffs. They e gotten themselves into a pickle by innovating through acquisition, although I think most large companies are following that model because it's faster (?).

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Post ID: @2lio+Lf8hzn8

Can someone clarify what / who the employees in "protected categories" are? I know in the past that women over a certain age could be considered "protected," but I have seen firsthand older females getting the boot in LRs.

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Post ID: @2ycs+Lf8hzn8

Good post. I saw the guy who LR'd me and my manager on LinkedIn a few months ago, looking for engineers. I wonder how he feels, knowing that 80% of his group is gone, and wondering if he'll have to prepare a list for the people he's hiring at some point, regardless of skill level. He's not really one of those "throw you under the bus" type of managers either. I pity him. It's bad for everybody. Collab is a very scary place. Once you leave, you see how it's not just business as usual, and other companies don't treat their workers like that.

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Post ID: @1ado+Lf8hzn8

Would current-Ciscoers agree that it's "gone quarterly" outside the US too?

I used to work in collaboration at a non-US location, and got kicked out during what was then a yearly cycle (unlike Spark, I worked on one of the old school products that actually had lots of customers). I still have friends who (AFAIK) still work there, and am wondering if their 9 month period of relative safety has turned into effectively 3 months

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Post ID: @1ifk+Lf8hzn8

Really good post. Thanks also to the OP. I (regrettably) found myself nodding as I read through it. My own travel to a security conference was put on ice last week owing to 'budget contraints' among other less obvious signs.

Apart from cloud, there also seems to be a lot of unrest in Collaboration, and Security to lesser degree. It will be an interesting few weeks as we wind down the quarter and people are braced for more bad news.

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Post ID: @1faw+Lf8hzn8

Definitely gone quarterly. We've seen this pattern at other companies and it doesn't end well.

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Post ID: @1nzh+Lf8hzn8

I'm not sure if I should feel honored or sickened that someone dug up my old post and reposted it. Honored that people still find it relevant, sickened because it's necessary. Definitely not a good sign that the yearly has now become the quarterly. (I know some large groups that got hit last quarter). Unfortunately I suspect the cloud groups will get hit hard this quarter and I still have some very good friends over in the cloud group.

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Post ID: @1plt+Lf8hzn8

Great post. There are a lot of managers who feel like you. I wish more HR folks would be open about how they feel.

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Post ID: @1xpd+Lf8hzn8

thanks for your sharing. very good post to explain the flow

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Post ID: @ecf+Lf8hzn8

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