It makes me laugh how negative some of you guys are on here. All I can say is that in the UK and EMEA there have been plenty of new hires and promotions in the Consulting Sales org and the Retail and Hospitality GBUs. I really don't see the doom and gloom that people are talking about on this forum. Oracle owes you nothing, its up to you to increase your worth to the organization and progress your career.
12 replies (most recent on top)
Yes you can certainly get your certifications all on your own with no help from the company. BUT WHY WOULD YOU? Every department has a training budget. So, why not work with your manager and get your training and certifications paid by the company? That simply does not make sense. In fact most managers ENCOURAGE you to spend their training budget, unless your manager is the embodiment of toxic waste, of course. So doing it all on your own makes no sense.
You deflected well, but not well enough. If a certification is directly related to you job and will help you do it better, yes then it is a good thing. But my point (which you ignored) is the just getting a certification to "rack them up" means nothing. If you have nothing to do with Scrum, why get your CSM? Do you think if you are a programmer that never uses agile would be entitled to a raise or promotion simply because they got a CSM? Getting certifications is requires a large investment in time and money and your ROI will never be recover if you don't use it. And it won't get your promoted unless change fields entirely and in that case it would be a lateral move at best.
There many people including myself who have booked exams via Pearson Vue and self-studied using books and online courses( Lynda.com and Safari Books Online) in our spare time and used our annual leave to go and sit the exams. After we have passed we have and then notified our manager when our badges have been uploaded to our employee profiles. Our managers were impressed by our initiative. This stuff really works!
"Having a certification as a DB admin doesn't mean anything if you are a python programmer"
Hmmm I disagree.
I know DBAs who have studied Cisco Certifications ( CCENT anfd CCNA Routing & Switching) because they work closely with Network/Server Engineers and they wanted to be able to' speak their language' better and more importantly, demonstrate this to their management.
And guess what, they were able to make a better case for promotion,which they received soon after being awarded these certifications.
Everyone I have worked with in EMEA has received at least a 10% increase in salary on promotion. In Ireland I've seen Sales reps get given 20%+ increase in base salary, frequently. If I worked in a region where this wasn't the norm, I would apply for roles in other BUs that were 1 IC level higher than where I was at because everyone who does this always receives a 10% promotion.
Another strategy that people should use to minimize their chances of redundancy is to develop a relationship with their upline VP or Snr Director.
You would be amazed at the number of people who are terrified about being made redundant but they haven't played the game well enough. It's all about WHO you know at Oracle.
I would advise anyone who is worried about the future to:
1) Send their upline VP a positive, up-beat email with some suggestions about ways improve the organization. Get your name known by this person. It helps when redundancy/RIF conversations are taking place
2) Study certifications in your own time( evenings and weekends) that are closely but not directly linked to the role that you are currently doing - this gives you options if you need to move laterally across the organization or 'hop' GBUs in search of promotions
Yup, i received a promotion meaning more work. I wasnt even asked if i wanted it. Raise wasnt discussed but i was given a tiny one. Barely noticed after taxes.
Getting a promotion should mean a 10+% increase in pay. If its less than this its almost not worth it. I received a little over 1%. Come on. That makes we want to quit, rather than being grateful for a promotion.
I'm not sure what to make of you, but a few things are for certain, in some areas you absolutely do not know what you are talking about.
Certifications: Your manager knows. Why? Because he has to approve the training budget and who uses it and how. Plus how are you going to account for your absence to take classes. And yes training is held during the day. And yes the training (or contact hours, if you will) is a requirement. Having certifications, like have the most 5's on your review of anyone in your department, does not mean anything in the promotion area. None of this is special for Oracle, this is common industry wide. Further How many certifications do you really need? One a year and one renewal a year is sufficient. Yes, you do have to renew your certifications. And they have to be relevant. Having a certification as a DB admin doesn't mean anything if you are a python programmer. While it is good to stay current and expand yourself, unless it is going to improve your work or expand the skill level of your work, it has no value except it looks nice on a resume. And getting certified is by no means a lock. To be a certified Dba means you have to answer 70 questions in 150 minutes. To take the master Dba test it is over TWO DAYS. As I recall Solaris and AIX were comparable as was storage, so it requires significant investment in time and effort. And they are only good for that revision. New revision, new certification. You better really need it and use it. I know I used to get certified in something once a year and renew 1-2 times. eventually I just got renewed.
Promotions. Doesn't mean more money, it means more work. I bet if you took an honest survey of people who were promoted in the last 5 years if they got any extra money it would be a "no" or a "yes but not worth the extra work". I do not know how it is in other GBUs but in the IT groups, this is absolutely the case.
It isn't the case that IC4s are being replaced by IC1s or any such nonsense. There are plenty of examples of IC2s and IC3s being promoted by 1 IC level. I can think of three people who I work with closely who have received this promotion during the last promotion cycle( me included). There are also numerous examples of people being externally recruited at IC3,IC4, M2, M3 and M4 levels. As for GBUs, I'm not sure which GBUs some of you have commented about but you need to pay attention to Retail and Hospitality GBUs. Management promotions have been happening across the board. Seems like there's plenty of budget available for headcount growing these orgs. Yes, we seem to have things better in the UK, Ireland and EMEA especially in Sales and PM role but if you're feeling despondent ask yourself this question. 'What have you done in the last 12 -18 months to demonstrate value that warrants a promotion or pay rise?' I had this conversation with a colleague who is a technologist who was complaining about how he's been an IC3 for 3 years. When I asked him if he had attained any new certifications over the last year he laughed and said something along the lines of "You want me to sacrifice evenings and weekends to study - forget that!". Hmmm. I'm not a techy but if I was a developer or an engineer and I was feeling frustrated I would make a point of studying 2-3 relevant certifications before the next promotional cycle ( every 6 months) and then I would go to my manager with my certs and make it clear I'm looking for a promotion. If you cant sell the idea of your promotion to your manager, how do you expect him/her to sell it to their upline VP. I have good friends who left Oracle to work for Google,Microsoft, Linkedin, SAP and Splunk who have all said that ,politics aside, they preferred the culture at Oracle. The grass really isn't greener elsewhere. Whether we know it or not we are all in the 'Sales' business. So,let's all stop moaning and let's all learn how to play the game better ;)
A lot of the ‘new hires’ are contractors who will be let go in an instant when the billable role completes.
All GBU products that do not have a live Cloud service have been put on maintenance mode and will not see any more on prem releases.
The GBU clean ups have not started yet, so far it has all been LE org, but is coming your way this FY.
It will be a rude awakening when it does.
And yet that is indeed their strategy
Hiring cheaper employees is a sign of Oracle's demise. It's not a good sign that the company has gotten so desperate that they need to layoff people with experience to hire the cheapest people possible with no experience.
"I really don't see the doom and gloom that people are talking about on this forum."
You need to get out more. Just ask the folks in Israel today.
Even here in the UK, many have 'gone for a Burton'
So they hired IC1s to do what IC4s used to do, whoop-de-doo!
And I'm happy to hear that oracle is hiring in those areas. We need more of that information on this site to offset all the negativity.
Not that I disagree but that's an interesting perspective coming from EMEA where corporate social responsibility and worker rights are much more of a big thing than it is in the US. Ask some of the former Support employees how they feel who were hit by an actual massive layoff a few years ago (the only real one I am aware of) at least partially due specifically due to workers rights programs. They generated value, just not enough that they couldn't be replaced by untrained low cost resources who could not really replace them directly but Oracle was willing to take the hit on customer satisfaction because it could just blame support for not doing its job. Value is a tricky thing.