Thread regarding Ford layoffs

Earning less now than 5 years ago

In case anyone was wondering how well the raises have been going at Ford. I am an experienced GSR hired by Ford about 5 years ago. I am earning less now as well as in 2018 than I did 5 years ago when I was first hired. The annual salary increase of 2% has not kept up with the shrinking bonus or annual profit sharing so much so that I will be earning several thousand dollars less this year than in 2015-2017.

Something to keep in mind when you first get hired at Ford is that you likely won't see much of a pay increase after the first couple of years, especially when you consider that the declining bonus is due to profit sharing and that has been shrinking due to the loss in market share and trade dispute. At this rate, it will probably take at least several more years, maybe a decade before I get promoted to an LL6 or LL5 position and see an actual pay bump, that is if I don't get SRD first.

Anyone thinking of applying or working should consider this and the fact that the pay and raise structure at Ford is not directly tied to performance or even seniority and you are likely to get stuck with the same salary or even lower salary for more than a decade before you see an actual pay raise.

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Post ID: @ZLMi6cn

12 replies (most recent on top)

I wanted to chime in and mention that the promotion and career progression path here at Ford is unlike that of any tech company or startup. Most of the large tech companies are quick to promote experienced and new hires after 3-5 years on the job and usually increase their wages by 30%-50% once the "probationary period" of the new hire ends.

That is clearly not the case with Ford. I know people who started as FCG 30-40 years ago who are still at the GSR8 and LL6 level, and these are competent and hardworking people who would have been promoted anywhere else. Like the supervisor mentioned, the whole promotion system is structured to keep you at the same salary level that you were hired indefinitely until you either quit or get laid off and that keeps the wages stagnant.

There are a number of individuals who will be promoted to the LL6 and LL5 level, but that comes after being with Ford for 15-20 years and at the cost of having to adopt the "One Ford" behavior rules. By that time you're too far in (both age and career wise) to be able find another job. The notion of being promoted above the LL6-LL5 is virtually non-existent for most of the rank and file. Those higher level management roles tend to be filled by political appointees or individuals from outside the organization. Hence I want to dispell any rumors or notions of a quick career progression or promotion, no matter what the recruiter or hiring manager or LL4 may tell you during the skip meetings.

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Post ID: @ZLMi6cn-7oho

Well said 15 year supervisor. You summarized my whole career. Sitting at a GSR8 (started with Ford out of school) and that carrot is one hell of an elusive one. Your statement on competence is spot on and it made me think some more about the rat race. I am a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. The more I try to act like them, the more miserable I find myself. So that said, I am just going to be me. Each year that passes, and each time I get passed over, the less I really care. I am a man of modest means (don't have a mcmansion off of Beck Rd.) And live fiscally conservative with a few kicks here and there. In summary F em.

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Post ID: @ZLMi6cn-4dcn

Ford generally doesn't promote smart employees. So be dumb and you have better chance to get promoted. Ford HR needs to look on how people get promoted. It is absolutely a corrupt system.

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Post ID: @ZLMi6cn-4fkn

Glad I was promoted from LL6 many years ago, whew.

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Post ID: @ZLMi6cn-cgr

Don't buy a Ford!

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Post ID: @ZLMi6cn-yhz

Many years ago an old boss defined the promotion chase as the "success prison". The more you work, the more promotions you receive, while your home life begins to suffer. When the home life suffers, what do you do? You work more - leading to more promotions. Ultimately you end up divorced and spend most of your time working non-stop (these folks make terrible managers if you want any work/life balance).

My old boss had done well for himself at Ford - oh - heard he ended up divorced around 10 years ago.

Everything has a price.

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Post ID: @ZLMi6cn-hlu

LL6's are the responsible grunts. Still grunts that are deprived of keeping their technical knowledge up to date and forced into "charm school" classes. It's a joke. Don't go there.

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Post ID: @ZLMi6cn-rqn

This is the most salient post I’ve seen to date. Sooooo true.

I would also caution any newbies — promotions to LL6 are not a slam dunk, nor rites of passage. Most see the exceptions rather than the rule.

And the rule follows the usual bell curve. Most LL6s begin selling their souls long before the actual promotion. All for a little more after-tax income and that perceived golden ring — The Management Lease.

Been there. Done that.

And regret that.

/iwwal6bgiu

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Post ID: @ZLMi6cn-yek

Think very carefully before seeking a promotion to an LL6. That level of management is seen as disposable and is fleeced severely each time there are headcount reductions. You’ll work 60 hours a week doing things the Ford way. Spend too many years in that role and you won’t have marketable skills.

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Post ID: @ZLMi6cn-cwl

@wfe Concur LL6 is double edged sword. If you want to stay and succeed you slowly swap money for your soul. It happens so slowly that one day you wake up and say How Did I Become This? The answer is you bent a little here justifying it as a favor for a superior. Then the next step was easier to justify. Soon it was normal behavior and the LL6 who would not play along were bad team members to be eliminated. Unfortunately the normative behavior seeped into my private life as well, with ill effects. So thankful to have retired.

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Post ID: @ZLMi6cn-ihp

I was supervisor for 15 years at Ford. This is the game which started about twenty years ago and ramped up in earnest twelve or so years ago.

If you hire experienced employees, you give them 2-3% annual raise indefinitely, until they are RIFed or quit.

If you hire early career, you give the mediocre/bad ones 2-3% annual raise indefinitely, until they are RIFed or quit.

If you hire early career, you give the good ones 4-5% annual raise, with 5% band promotion every other year until they are at band 8. You then give them 2-3% annual raise indefinitely, until they are RIFed or quit.

The LL6 promotion carrot is dangled in front of all GSR8 to wring more work out of GSR8. Many chased it and died in the harness never tasting the carrot.

If you catch the carrot and become LL6, your LL5 will start playing power games and instead of dangling a carrot begin threatening termination if you do not swear fealty to him alone and participate in his underhanded games.

Be careful what you aspire to. If you cannot stomach the games, exit before you must. Choosing not to play the game will mean you are clipped, there is a reason for the wallpapered Ford Culture posters.

A piece of advice for GSRs. If you see a LL6 in a position that they are clearly not qualified for. Be very careful as they are providing a service to the LL5 or above. The LL5 or above finds that service more valuable than competence.

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Post ID: @ZLMi6cn-wfe

Appreciate the update, let us know how it works out.

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Post ID: @ZLMi6cn-esq

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