I wanted to see if you can tell me what CCI tells you to tell students when they ask about placement numbers. Also, if you could, what would you like to tell the student when he or she asks you this question. I am not trying to stir things up, just want to see what your thought process is as relates as one of the biggest questions we face. I am an adjunct.
38 replies (most recent on top)
I really wish adjunct wouldn't reply. Obviously the question is directed. Not that you know it, but if you aren't asked why answer. That being said, I worked in education and I was asked of course after students are in class and have debt. But, it is a hard questions because you have the numbers. Comes in the enrollment packet. Which we know to be false most of the time. And, it is hard to say that these school sick because they could be really good. If the school would enroll good students who are ready then the placement numbers would be good. Believe it or not I saw many students work hard come to school everyday and learn so at the end they do get hired right off of extern. But, that is about 20% of the time and who knows what they get paid. Most have to go to a different school to learn more and move up I'm not saying that is all bad because some need the experience and it will help but at a big cost. At my campus pre everest the cost was lower and the academic rules, attendance and grades were enforced the students were more successful but as the company changed to money hungry whores the education and placement suffered.
@966 is right. Online students are enrolled with no computer, no internet access, no transportation. And promises of the EUO laptop, which doesn't arrive until the student fails all their first term classes (due to lack of access) doubles their debt (and EUO revenue) when they must repeat them. It takes a long time for students to get to career services and ask about placement. Where are those computers? Another question for the scouts.
Strangely, the only ones who asked about placement numbers are the ghost visitors and scouts
THERE ARE NO PROMISES OR GUARANTEES! Inferences on the other hand…
I'm in admissions and placement is not guaranteed unless maybe it is done by a dirty rep in which case they should be fired.
9911, I agree. I haven't ever thought about what I want to tell them, as it's never come up in my classroom. By the time they're in the classroom, it's a little late to worry about what placement rates are. They should be asking before they sign up. Everyone's responses are very interesting though.
This is one of the best threads we had in a while. i still think that we need to answer the subject line question though - "what you tell students" vs. "what you would like to tell students". i am not sure that i'd tell them anything different, maybe i'd tell them that the FIRST job might not be well paid (or 'paid as much as they expect') but that if they continue to work they may make a career out of it.
865 is right. Problems were several years ago when we (and other for profits) got away with loopholes. CCi has since shored that up and does not have an issue. Sure, there may be an idiot/unethical employee or two across the business that skirts the intent of the rules, but unfortunately all businesses in all industries have that. That's just idiot people in general.
The reason it's a hot topic now is because our foes are digging up the past and pursuing reprimands, thus making the topic seem current when it really isn't.
And by the way, 841, CCi Does Get public funds in the form of title IV FA, which comes directly from the DOE.
841, I would encourage you to be as clear as possible on any online forum, since your words can be easily misconstrued as ignorance. You just proved my point, which was that public universities do not PROMISE career placement, like cci does, in addition to charging outrageous tuition. The resources are there, students must seek them out. You said you found it fishy that for profit schools were being scrutinized for their practices, but the things they are being scrutinized for are the very things that separate them from REAL schools.
"The official reporting we submitted to the state or your a creditors." A bit misleading when it's falsified, at least at some locations.
3819- actually there were more issues in previous years
I'm from Career Services and I responded. For the past 3 years, we have had to send them to the disclosures. The official reporting we submitted to the state or your a creditors. We don't guarantee or promise a statistic. We discuss how we work.
I think the OP was asking someone from Admissions to provide a response
Anonymous39818 - no criticism here. just one big thanks for a honest post.
I have not encountered the question. But if I did (adjunct) at this point I would direct the student to the State AG because apparently there is confusion about career placement numbers.
831 - my experience is that students (at least the ones not just here for the stipend) ask questions about placement very early on - during the admissions process and campus tour. After all, isn't that why they are here - to get a (low paying, entry level) job in their choseen field?
831, nice one!! WOOH, HOOH!!
806, you obviously don't understand how PUBLIC universities work or CAREER colleges work. PUBLIC universities subsidize your tuition with tax revenues, CAREER colleges do not get public funds to subsidize tuition. PUBLIC universities can charge for room, board, lab fees, etc. to further increase the cost of their students education. ALL PUBLIC universities have career placement services. CAREER colleges are just that - teaching a career. Wouldn't you like to know that if I'm investing in a career that I will get a job in it? PUBLIC universities are in the business of knowledge, not career education. I'm not defending CCi in any way, just trying to take you down a notch or two for going off on other posters when you don't understand yourself. BTW, I went to a PRIVATE university for my undergraduate degree and paied 5X's what a PUBLIC university charges for tuition. However, that was my choice and I believe I got a better education there.
I found my own job, no career services department...give a man a fish, feed him for a day...teach a man to fish, feed him for life!
Anonymous39805- When you went to school, you didn't go to a "career college," which students attend for the sole purpose of employment.
CCI students don't ask questions about placement until after they graduate and hire attorneys who then tell them to start asking questions that any sensible person would have asked before enrolling.
You asked what we would say. I'm an adjunct. I don't have anything to say about career placement. Lets face it, as adjuncts, we aren't exactly at the top of the career food chain ourselves. I would direct them to career services for any questions about careers beyond the scope of my knowledge base.
818 - My non-scientific observation is that there have been more issues (student quality, placement, fraudulent acitivity) in the past 2-4 years than there were preiously.
OK - Here is a response from Career Services: I provide students the documented placement rate for the campus from the past ACICS year for their specific program. Before you turn on the flame throwers, please consider a couple things from my perspective: Understanding that this happened on some campuses (and maybe mine before I arrived), I never placed a student in a position that was not understood to be a permanent PT or FT position. Did some students leave/get fired/disapear after a day/week/month? Absolutely. Like instructors, we were not always working with America's best and brightest. Also, my sense is that the verification process was fairly rigorous. I had some employers complain about the number of calls they received to verify employment. I understand the accusations about fraudulent placement rates, and I am sure it occured. I simply never saw any evidence. I was, however, bothered by he relatively low pay rates ($11.00 - $13.00) for most placements, but I also ran into many grads who started at that level and received promotions/raises over the years. OK, fire away........
Adjunct. I don't know anything about career services or job placement. I would direct them to their ss rep to find out who can answer that.
I'm sorry. Already gotten your education underway.
I think by the time you reach career services, you've already signed off on student loans and have gotten your career underway. If a student is going to ask about placement it should be when they are a potential student. I'm adjunct. I don't ever get asked career / job placement questions.
806 - Amen. One of the best posts ever. I wander why nobody from career services responded
Ass, not assignment* guess my phone doesn't like curse words
805, you obviously don't understand how for-profits work. I went to a public university (state school), graduated, and never once was told that my school would help me find a job. I had to bust my assignment to find a job on my own, and my degree was what qualified me. CCI doesn't do this. CCI gives students a false hope that employment is guaranteed. That is how CCI lures students in. Instead of having to work hard, network, and fill.out applications on their own, CCI promises students help with employment, tells them that they will be guaranteed a job in their field. It's why they are called CAREER COLLEGES. Not to mention, they charge 3x as much as a public university, so it only makes sense that the government would scrutinize them. There's no secret conspiracy here, just a misleading, greedy enterprise being revealed for what it is.
This issue bugs me. When I went to college (undergrad, masters, doctorate).....I did not expect, or ask, the school to be responsible for find a job for me. When did that start? I also don't think traditional colleges are responsible for finding students jobs. Is the government checking to see if all these students who attend these colleges are employed??? All the art history majors, philosophy majors, anthropology majors.....Oh, yes, I'm sure they are all gainfully employed! Doesn't anyone find this expectation, that for-profit schools are responsible for ensuring that their graduates are employed, a bit strange?
When asked this question, I direct the student to career services.
To the OP: I too am an adjunct. I have not received this question from students either.
Never in my 14 years has a student ask me. If any should ask me, I will direct them to Career Services for the answer.
We direct them to the gainful employment disclosures to be consistent. Strangely, not many actually ask about it.
Placement numbers?....I can't get these meatheads to answer the phone. False flag!
Never had a student ask about placement numbers. Have taught online for quite some time.