Anyone hear as to the stock options or rsu that SAS will offer?
33 replies (most recent on top)
"Employees will probably be offered shares at a discount. If the discount is large enough, they should buy; if not, not."
Reminds me too much of the Midway debacle. No thanks.
That said, SAS gave me a nice career and I'm grateful. I hope they can turn things around with some new ideas to generate new revenue streams.
I think the IPO reflects a realization that the most likely buyer of SAS is a company like Broadcom, looking for a bargain price. An IPO, being a sale to the general public, may provide an exit strategy at a better price.
Employees will probably be offered shares at a discount. If the discount is large enough, they should buy; if not, not.
@2vnt+1o1VItVn
"IMHO, the plan is let employees believe there is a big payoff awaiting them, but be vague and unacceptable about it."
After the Broadcom failure and some employees realizing that they were about sent down the river with no paddle, I think the IPO was a desperate attempt to retain some talent from leaving the company by offering a shiny object.
If I recall correctly, air travel in general took a huge hit at that time, so it would have been a hard event to predict as an investor.
If you want to build fabulous wealth, invest all of your assets into 1 correctly timed and valued stock. All that you need to know in advance is which 1 stock is going to grow fabulously.
If you want to build "modest" but reliable wealth, then invest in index funds that own hundreds or thousands of individual stocks. Your wealth will not be fabulous, but you will have it.
If you are going to buy single stocks, buy enough to get you a seat on the board so that you can impact the direction of the company.
"Does anybody remember the Midway airlines debacle that happening during the late 90's?
"This was before JHG had private jets and a hangar at RDU.
JHG bought the airline and offered shared to employees.
The airline went bust after 9/11 and everybody's investment went to $0."
I was one of the SAS employees that was foolish to buy Midway shares offered by SAS and lost money. So if SAS ever offers its stocks (I doubt it will), I will not buy it. The company isn't growing and that tells you all you need to know.
Even if the shares paid a dividend, I don't know that it would be worth it. Most likely, the revenue will continue to decrease, not remain steady. But I could be wrong.
Right. People get rich when they invest early in growing companies. If you got Amazon stock in 1997, you got in early, and it grew.
SAS is no longer early and growing. That doesn’t mean it can’t IPO. Tylenol and BandAids aren’t early and growing, either, but Johnson & Johnson just IPO’d them.
Why did J&J IPO Kenvue? An IPO involves more buyers, so it can bring a better price. SAS can do the same.
My financial advisor told me two things: 1) Don’t hold you breath on a stock payout. If JG wanted to share his wealth, he would have done so long ago. 2) IPOs are successful for companies on an upward trajectory. That is certainly no longer SAS.
From the day the IPO was announced I said its a ruse.
Remember the 2021 "Great Resignation"? If there was ever a time to speak up about stock in order to retain talent, that we old have been it. Why didn't they do it? My take is it's one thing to let employees lie to themselves. That's foolish of them. But the SEC would come crash the party if the company lied to employees in this regard.
IMHO, the plan is let employees believe there is a big payoff awaiting them, but be vague and unacceptable about it.
I will always be grateful for the opportunity to work at SAS and wish I had left a bit sooner.
I'd be more inclined to believe all these "selfish billionaire" opinions if he was living like Jeff Bezos. But he's not and never has.
Should some of the super smart folks who were at the heart of SAS' success been rewarded more? Probably. But for the rank-and-file, he's paid us a very decent wage with great benefits and an awesome work environment. I will forever be thankful for the career he gave me at SAS.
"... JHG has never been about “enriching” his employees … except for perhaps few who rendered additional skills outside HR-approved job descriptions. ..."
Aside from the house, I wonder what the mom of the girl with his face got?
" ... Anyone who has worked at SAS knows there was (still is?) corporate compassion for loser products. Loser products are just that: expensive to develop and have low demand, if any. In bean counter terms. loser products have a negative ROI. ..."
Maybe the loser products have some backend technology that they try to repurpose for something else? Or, maybe its the playground for one or more "pets"?
Pretty sure the SAS BBJ is a gutted 737 that was converted/up-fitted with a master aft bedroom and $12M in avionics added. The real question is how many members of the “6 mile high aft club” still work at SAS?
"I guess his Boeing business jet and the 737-700's that Midway had are technically the same airframe, but it's definitely not the same aircraft."
Oh, I see. Sell off the passenger outfitted plane for cash, and then use the cash to turn around and buy the same airframe outfitted for business. Well, he probably did take a bath on it as the majority shareholder. Hopefully the employees were a bit smarter and didn't invest in that debacle.
"I assume JHG sold the planes to SAS as business assets at fire sale rates."
Nope. The aircraft in the SAS/JHG fleet are different than the Midway fleet - I guess his boeing business jet and the 737-700's that Midway had are technically the same airframe, but it's definitely not the same aircraft.
I used to have a fantasy where based on JG praise of his employees he would do like Bobs Red Mill and give the company to his us his most important asset. I mean he has already made his billions right? But I know that was just a silly fantasy. When is enough enough?
Everything with the property and enjoining estate house/grounds Likely has corporate tax/trust advantages not enjoyed by the working class.
JHG Is an extremely savvy businessman and financial engineer. He figured out a way to make everything appear golden and create a “foil” for naysayers criticizing him about not sharing more wealth with his hardest working, most productive/innovative employees.
The system made it very difficult to practice “internal entrepreneurship” and anything in anything close to the Financial reward commensurate with the effort. Attempts to better yourself and the company from within were often met met with sheepish passive management and entrenched incompetence.
There are a few hundred individuals in the history of SAS who, after 20 years of service would’ve had and 8 figure net worths just from their share of equity at any similarly successful tech company who offered it.
"... Does anybody remember the Midway airlines debacle that happening during the late 90's? This was before JHG had private jets and a hangar at RDU.
JHG bought the airline and offered shared to employees.
The airline went bust after 9/11 and everybody's investment went to $0. ..."
And then what happened? I assume JHG sold the planes to SAS as business assets at fire sale rates. He, the family, and the corporate favorables retained the use of the aircraft, and it was too bad for everyone else?
Am I right?
"... I have always said the same thing basically. JG is the master of looking good while spending on things that actually save him money and provide perks to employees. Campus cafes, healthcare, gym, all save him time and money and make SAS look good. ..."
I assume there are favorable tax implications for all these beneficent acts. It would not surprise me if his daily home and life maintenance were somehow rolled into some larger set of SAS expenses. And those "benefits" are available to employees as part of that tax-savings strategy.
That's just my guess. I could be completely wrong, and JHG could truly be the selfless, beneficent god that y'all seem to worship.
As a standard practice, private companies issue options all the time in addition to competitive compensation to reward and retain employees. The fact that the story keeps changing on when employees will? get options doesn’t feel right. It feels dishonest. The excuses they come up with to move out the options date, the fact that they could issue them today…something feels off.
Does anybody remember the Midway airlines debacle that happening during the late 90's?
This was before JHG had private jets and a hangar at RDU.
JHG bought the airline and offered shared to employees.
The airline went bust after 9/11 and everybody's investment went to $0.
Let's assume for a fact that SAS will IPO and employees will receive stock.
Disclaimer: I know nothing about how companies decide how much stock to give, etc. This is just one person's ramblings.
I left SAS in the midst of Covid to a company that does give out stock. If I take the dollar figure I received in stock ($x00,000) divided by my new company's market cap, that essentially gives me how much of the company did they give me for joining right? Now if I take that figure and multiply it by SAS's valuation (20 billion let's say), what do I get?
$6,000
Somebody please point out where I'm wrong, because I'd gladly be wrong about this.
I have always said the same thing basically. JG is the master of looking good while spending on things that actually save him money and provide perks to employees. Campus cafes, healthcare, gym, all save him time and money and make SAS look good. I have no illusions that he will make me a wealthy man beyond what I can save out of my salary, after 25+ years here.
SAS will not flush Viya. It already generates too much revenue, is the basis for virtually alll of SAS' ongoing AI/ML initiatives, distributed data management (including significant open source integration and partnerships) and is helping keep SAS "sticky" at hyper-scale tradional SAS customers.
SAS has known for years that it would have to face the music. But, SAS is dragging their feet on the IPO
Anyone who has worked at SAS knows there was (still is?) corporate compassion for loser products. Loser products are just that: expensive to develop and have low demand, if any. In bean counter terms. loser products have a negative ROI.
If you are still employed at SAS, your best tactic for long term weathering of the storm, is to be working in an area that has a VERY positive ROI.
The IPO is not your savior. Your savior is having a skill set that is in demand. Either at SAS or elsewhere.
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A number of people have said on this board that SAS "can't" IPO. But JHG is a billionaire; nobody can tell him what he can't do. Whether he will use an IPO to enrich his employees or his family will be his decision
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JHG has never been about “enriching” his employees … except for perhaps few who rendered additional skills outside HR-approved job descriptions. He prides himself on getting the best bargain he can, paying as little as possible for anything … and that includes employee compensation.
In order for RSUs to have value for the employee masses, the company has to have significant profits. C-Level executives are rewarded first and whatever is left funnels down the hierarchy of job titles. Then market value is determined on the exchange where the stock is traded.
IOW — If you’re a rank-and-file employee you’re probably better off living frugally, getting a cash bonus and investing it yourself. Historically, a number of SAS employees have and are now financially independent.
"...Whether he will use an IPO to enrich his employees or his family will be his decision. ..."
"Let them eat cake! (Made in the Building R kitchen.) Now get back to maintaining my software so my heirs can supplement their allowances!"
"IPO-ready" means that the books meet public accounting standards, so they can be approved by the SEC and the investment bankers who will sell the shares.
I've been told that Deloitte and Touche have been retained to get the SAS books in order. Their roadmap for the IPO process is here:
https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/pages/audit/articles/a-roadmap-to-initial-public-offerings.html
Public accounting standards must be followed for a period of three years. Since this effort was announced in 2021, it's not likely to be completed before the end of 2024. That would fit with global layoffs and tech support restructuring announced for 2024.
The market for IPOs is currently poor, and may continue poor next year. That could delay an IPO.
Alternatively, preparing the books for an IPO also prepares them for private sale. Other software companies might decide they don't want to see SAS publicly traded by their competitors. Broadcom or another enterprise software company could make a private offer. If that were sweet enough, it would prevent the IPO.
A number of people have said on this board that SAS "can't" IPO. But JHG is a billionaire; nobody can tell him what he can't do. Whether he will use an IPO to enrich his employees or his family will be his decision.
One more time for the people in the back ... there is no such thing as IPO-ready. The company is either ready to IPO or is not. SAS is not. Far too much that can't be explained to anyone who looks carefully at the numbers.
Antone still hoping to get rich off of a stock offering needs to wake up. It will never happen.
Hahahahahahahahahaa
:deep breath: oh you're serious?
Hahahahahahaah
Most likely scenario is that IPO never happens and equity plan is never shared. If we pretend it actually is going to happen then:
In 2022, Jen said they were delayed rolling out the equity plan because it was taking time to figure out how to do make it work with all the international employees.
Earlier this year, Goodnight and Jen mentioned that we wouldn't see the equity plan until after SAS hit it's targets for profitability and growth. We won't know that until next year. So January 2024 is the earliest they'll release it. If SAS doesn't make its numbers then who knows. Maybe 2025.
For you, nothing.
It is too soon to determine. First, the company has to move past being IPO-ready, and into an actual offering. Then, what sort of compensation people receive depends on the performance of the company at, and after, the IPO.