I want some employees who are against remote work to please explain why you have this stance. I get it why people want to work in office but when your are against the rest of us working remotely I don’t get it. Also, I would like to see the ages of people who are against it as well. From what I can tell it’s the longtime older employees who are the ones negatively commenting. I think it’s honestly because work is a place for them to get away from their significant others. Also, it’s a place for them to socialize like one of those morning breakfast clubs at McDonalds that the elderly go to. Change my mind.
60 replies (most recent on top)
raise hand I have a doubt....
WELL THE ILL JUST DO THE NEEDFUL AND REQUEST THE SAME!
@5hbb+1nW03EBX game on Greg. I'm not even waiting until you're off the call. I'm standing right next to you, gesturing that I have an "emergency question" and wait until you take those headphones off. THEN I'll ask you about the ticket I submitted 5 mins ago.
I’ll just wait until you’re off the call, just off your shoulder in peripheral view. I am going to say hello and ask about the weather, I will not be denied.
@4uyv+1nW03EBX, can just be CEO please?
Millennial here.
I honestly don't mind RTO. But here is what I don't like.
- Forcing people who were approved to move drive 60+ miles to the office 3x a week
- Not allowing teams to pick their days to RTO. Office congestion... Ugh.
- Not providing information (up front, visible) on what type of medical accomodations are available
- Saying obvious lies about culture, and whatever other excuse for RTO (which is the same as every other company with RTO orders in the news)
- Making employees pay for parking (in some locations apparently)
- Not even acknowledging the financial impacts that have surfaced since covid and inflation (even a simple 'we understand this may be hard' would be nice)
6a. On this note, offer a stipend to help with the new expenses. Remember we don't all make 100k+, some people have lost spouses, have had families, and/or may be severely impacted by inflation, and so on.
- Having zero input from employees and trying to address them with in-office support and other accomodations
- Slow rollout should have been done. Start with 1 day a week, then 2 days a week, and then 3 days a week so that the change is not so jarring
- Don't announce layoffs right after RTO. Like seriously EC?! This is just d-mb and evil as he-l
- Stop contradictions. Are remote workers leadership quality or not? Why are fully remote teams forced to RTO if in person collaboration is that important? You can't have it both ways.
I mean, there's more... But ultimately, the lack of empathy, the obvious lies, and lack of communication channels are, I guarantee, what people are mostly upset about.
It's not just complaining. This impacts a lot of people in very negative ways. And it seems like some people here, including our leadership, need some empathy training.
@3ghp+1nW03EBX - LOL Tell me you're a boomer without telling me you're a boomer.
Seriously though, please don't say to hi to someone when they are deep in thought. You're disrupting their focus and it's an a-hole thing to do!
Now that I think about it... We should petition for Do Not Disturb signs. That would be fantastic.
“I always enjoy coming to the office and talking shop with the younger generations. Sometimes I’ll just pop my head over the cube and ask them how their days going!”
Many of us “younger generations” got ADHD. Last thing we need is an old dude popping their heads over the cube to talk shop about good ole times. This is why we wear ANC headphones. All.the.time.
@1sif+1nW03EBX “ They're concerned about business continuity. ” - right, because there was no “business continuity “ for the past 3 years.
@1sif+1nW03EBX
Schwab doesn't move fast enough to be able to replace us with AI. Especially in the next decade. Do you really think they are going to be able to develop those capabilities with offshore contractors and all of the Schwab red tape? I need to fill out ten forms just to fix a bug in production. Just imagine how much bereaucracy would they have for developing AI capabilities to replace all our jobs.
@3ydx+1nW03EBX
Cats are actually very social creatures.
@2htv+1nW03EBX
Some of us lead very rich social lives right at home. Talking to our cat.
I always enjoy coming to the office and talking shop with the younger generations. Sometimes I’ll just pop my head over the cube and ask them how their days going!
Sounds like Al Bundi from Married With Children. Kids at home driving me crazy. Wife also at home. Need RTO to get balance. Go sell some shoes then Al.
Ha ha the guy who wants to go back to the office confirmed the OPs point again. He wants to get away from his family. However I get that and understand where you are coming from but we don’t have money to buy homes or raise kids so that is not important to us. It’s very sad that you think our only way of socializing is going back to the office. We have many ways of socializing besides that. We don’t want to hang out with you outside of work. We don’t want to listen to your distracting conversations or hear your jokes. You are just a coworker not a friend. This company has proved to us that we mean nothing to them. We are reciprocating that mentality. This is just a place to get a paycheck nothing more nothing less. Going above and beyond is gone
I have kids and I am against RTO. Many reasons against RTO (kids aren't the reason I oppose RTO). It's all the reasons many of you have mentioned already. Save time, money, etc. A big factor is that too many slackers in the office treat work like social hour. If I have to RTO, I will go off on people BIG TIME for bugging/distracting me, and will probably get fired.
@1nli+1nW03EBX
Why was it so rough for you, having your wife and kids all being home at the same time? Sounds like you have a dysfunctional family.
I don't think its age thats differentiating those that want to go back to work and those that don't. I think its having children. I'm in my forties. 3 kids. Even those younger than I were happy to get back into the office when they re-opened and safety/health concerns were addressed. Most of the folks I know opposed to RTO don't have children and tend to be unattached.
UP this post if you HAVE kids
DOWN this post if you DON'T HAVE kids
A difference of opinion or expecting someone to be able to verbalize a clear position does not make me a troll.
What I meant ( my previous post: uli+1nW03EBX ) is that while I am all for remote work, the people protesting rto on here arent making a compelling argument as to why we should be able to work from home. So good luck, but you're making it worse by assuming that we're being asked to return because EC is tech-averse old men. Contrarily, they could replace a lot of us with AI in the next decade if you convince them we dont need to ever be physically present. They're not concerned about "comraderie", though I think it could be a benefit of returning in hybrid RTO. They're concerned about business continuity. So I'm not saying either RTO or leave, but jesus think from the pov of those you want to persuade.
For all you people that say you will be happy or excited to go back to the office, why aren't you there already? If you love it so much, why didn't you update your agreement last year to go into the office some or all of the time? Sounds to me like you are a troll and screwed up! You should have said "I was so glad when I started going to the office again last year". D-mb A-- trolls!
I'm happy to go back into the office. We are a happy family, but my kids drove me absolutely mental when they were home during the COVID craziness. Their behavior definitely started to resemble symptoms of cabin fever and they really missed their friends.
It was rough. I was home, my wife was home, the kids were home - it was just tough on everyone. We adjusted after a while, but I do think the lack of outside human socialization impacted my children and we are paying a price for it today. It just wasn't normal for kids to not be around their peers. Its important for human development.
Its important for adults too. It gives us all a chance to develop skills in dealing with each other. Maybe working from home and being totally virtual has caused this general sense that people don't need to co-exist with each others. They can just block people they don't like or worse get way to easily offended by something written online.
The kids are back in school. We are going back into the office. Its a natural order and everyone's mental state is improving. I like it. The fact that we can spend a day or two at home a week is great too. I can help my wife by taking the kids into school those days. Everybody wins.
Its really the right balance.
And for the person on this thread that said "oh, I like in-office because I can tell when my neighbor is busy or available cause I sit next to them..." OMG... no, you are likely a huge pain for that neighbor. They may be on a call and you don't know but you just stand there like a fool making everyone uncomfortable; or you interrupt them when they are trying to work on something -- with remote, I just block out time when I am working on a project and you can tell when I am REALLY available. Not when it just "appears" that way b/c I'm not on an obvious call.
@lki+1nW03EBX Just a management troll ... seriously ... you smell of "let's go back to the 1950's" -- grow up. The world is changing. UHNW clients actually love meeting via zoom b/c they don't have your smelly a$$ in their living room and it's easier to schedule time on their very busy schedule. And folks don't have to deal with all of the gross office cr-p -- microagressions, awful gossip and cliques, bathroom issues (yes, for many that is a huge issue) --- getting sick all of the time sitting shoulder to shoulder with folks, and again, the unpaid time and expense getting to and from the office (and in some locations parking is extremely expensive). So go flush your comments in the toilet of "mwhahh I am a man who wants to live in the 1950s" and grow up to the 2023 of "let's provide innovative, productive, efficient work while employees actually get some work/life balance". If employees are not working while remote or using the "tech isn't working"? Fine. Make them come into office or upgrade their tech, or terminate - that's a manager issue to deal with a performance issue. It's NOT a remote work issue.
There is nothing "wrong" with remote work -- it is not "antiwork" or sloppy folks wanting to work in their pajamas. Grow up. The world is connected digitally -- there is no reason for me to come into an office center and sit in a cubicle with conversations all around me when I am on a conference call. I don't get my "community" from work - I get it from my real community - family and friends. So no, folks who want to work remotely want to do good productive work, efficiently, so they have the time for the "community" that truly matters to them - not waste time on idle office chatter, commuting (for which you don't get paid), or sitting in a conference room for another mindless meeting. Wouldn't it be awesome if our employer didn't dictate where we live??? Truly? Seriously, employer determines our level of healthcare, pay, where we have to live - can we just have one of those things that we can decide on for ourselves?? The whole Schwamily sh$t is BS -- Schwab is not my family -- never was, never will be - and as I await whether I am extricated from said "Schwamily" -- for 3 months we wait?? Yeah, not my family. It's my employer. I work to live - not live to work. My calling is my real family and my community/neighborhood. Yes, I get that older folks (white men) got to their lofty positions through that "firm handshake" blah blah ... while us women were groped on the a$$, and others that didn't fall into the white Male/white female category were just not included into the "boys club." Yep, I know you long for that 60's "mad men" type of work environment, but sorry -- we have progressed. Tired of the trite "collaboration" "culture" and "can't onboard folks" -- that's a performance/poor management issue, not a remote work issue. Figure it the F out. Be innovative (shocking I know). But stop the whole horse sh$t -- "you all are whining babies" trope. Nope. We are cognizant of the ability to provide employees with real work/life balance and want employees treated equitably (oh, I know that word is triggering for senior mgmt). Pretty callous that EC received 58% increase in comp (Walt) and 115% - 157% increase (other EC members) in 2022 -- giving only a 2-3% raise (if that) to those who did the actual work. OK, so there was a 5% increase in 2021 -- ok ...lol... not even matching inflation rate if you add it to the normal 1-3% meager pay increase per year. Just tired of those on this site whining "in office is sooo awesome - stop whining" -- no, you are the whiners because you don't want to progress. Sorry. Also - all of EC pay is public knowledge -- via proxy info provided so don't complain about putting that out there -- it already is.
I have been at Schwab 20 years, in my mid fifties, grade 57, not a PL. I appreciate my two days at home, but my three days in the office are still OK. I am more productive in many aspects at home, but am not unproductive in the office. I don't go in to work to get away from my spouse of 30 years, in fact I love being around them. I actually maintain a social life in and out of the office (IKR???) I hate how the freedom to choose where I work is being removed, but I can adapt either way. I am all for 100% work from home. I wholeheartedly agree with the protestations here, but OP is pigeonholing people they don't know s*** about. Don't like that OP? Stay mad.
Never argue with a fool, onlookers might not be able to tell the difference-Mark Twain. On that note I’m never visiting this site again. OPs point was proven. We didn’t hear from one younger person against RTO only the people we suspected
Nahhhhh, I'm gonna just work at 30% till I get laid off. You can keep working in the office while I sit at home working at a better position for more money
@pgn+1nW03EBX
Not really. The argument works well. If you don't want RTO, then leave. Go to another company that supports full time telecommute. It is that easy. Or like you, and a lot others where, whine and moan about how bad it is. It's actually laughable.
If Schwab decided to pay you the same salary as a McDonald's worker, would you be thankful? No, of course not. It is regrettable that McDonald's workers can't work from home, but the technology isn't there for them to work from home effectively and cheaply like it is for us. I'm thankful every day I get out of bed and my arms and legs still work, that does not mean that I am at all fine with having yet another drain on money and time in an economy where the belt is already tight, due to a choice that was obviously made solely to motivate us to leave in the first place.
Most of my life I performed this job using physical paper and files. If Schwab decided we would have to get up and walk to go and dig through them physically on calls, what would you say? Times change. This seems like a small change, but so did everything else that preceded it.
Who said anything about being forced to work at Schwab? If your roof starts leaking do you immediately sell the house? No, you try to fix it. Unfortunately, workers don't have much leverage in this situation OTHER than to make their dissatisfaction known. We're not unionized, there's no collective bargaining. It goes without saying everyone CAN get a job elsewhere, many already have. It's utterly infantile to take this holier-than-thou stance every single time workers collectively are annoyed with an aggressively stupid managerial decision.
You people are never going to win by choosing to ignore people that are dissatisfied with their working conditions. The best you are going to get is a disconnected, disillusioned workforce that does the bare minimum. You want excellence from your workforce, you give excellence as management. It is not excellent to silence dissatisfaction with "just get a new job bro, it is what it is."
The argument about if we don’t like it we can leave is one of the d-mbest ones out there. Anytime someone wants to change something you just shut down the innovation? That’s not how good companies operate and survive. We are telling you that we are going to leave but want to give you a chance to understand us before we do. Dude we make videos about living in vans down by the river for fun. Don’t temp us with a good time. Wait until you lose a whole generation of talent
So when Schwab sends items offshore how is that more or less secure than us working from home? Also, I’m pretty sure the clients are convinced because I haven’t heard them say a word about us working from home. However wait until we are all in packed cubes and they can’t hear us. You will hear them complain about that I guarantee you.
Love all the grassroots revolutionaries bravely condescending people on an anonymous forum. You arent being forced to work at Schwab, right? Look elsewhere. 99 % of the world would see these arguments as entitled from corporate cronies.
The tech sector forced people back and held massive layoffs- it's not an "old people are tech-obtuse issue". Clients will ultimately want secure services and well- made products. You have to convince clients.
For the record, I don't want RTO. But we should listen to our selves. First, Schwab let us keep our jobs, work from home, during the pandemic. That was a massive shift, and permitted us to continue even after the pandemic subsided. We should be greatful for that. We kept our livelihoods, houses, supported our families, and so forth. They now made a decision, that they think is best. Not all of us agree with it. But is it as bad as it sounds. I have commuted into work most of my life. The people that work at McDonalds serving up your shake and fried don't have an option to work remotely.
We are afraid to take those jobs now though because they constantly get laid off
Boomer here, Managing Director
I’ll just say this, if you want to change or shift the culture - you will need to be in those leadership positions to do so. Those who can adapt to the requests of their employer now will ultimately be rewarded with the chance to make those decisions in the future.
While we are all posting here anonymously, I view the people that consider office spaces to be necessary for the building of relationships and leadership ability to be absolutely ignorant and completely out of touch. I refuse to believe someone is genuinely unintelligent enough to believe that there won't be a company culture without being jammed into a cubicle next to tons of other people. There are many, many ways to instill comradery and teamwork without having to physically be near your coworkers. The plain, honest truth is that if you are insistent on forcing people to return to an office setting when they are capable of accomplishing their work remotely and desire to do so, you are simply obstinately and vainly fighting the future of business.
I get it. You grew up with being in the office. You shared many moments that were key to your personal growth being surrounded by other people, like being in the belly of a living, breathing beast. But those days are vanishing. You can continue to complain about people becoming gradually more resistant to working in such an environment, but it's the future of work. If you as a business are looking for the best talent, you're going to want the best in the world, not the best within 50 miles. Remote work is going to subsume office space, and in ten years I wonder what you will be saying. Perhaps lamenting the innocence of a smaller world.
That is my two cents, at least.
I'm fine with remote work but the OP and the defenders of remote work on here could really use some business education and exposure to leadership, based on your arguments and phrasing alone. Dismal eloquence or persuasive skills. I'm not saying you'll see great examples at Schwab, which may be the very reason you sound so inmature.
To the OP, You didn't convince anyone of your point of view, you whined ignorantly- older people like working in office as a social diversion like "McDonalds"? Older people want everyone to RTO so they can get away from their significant others- WTF?
A commentor: "We build relationships and character online now." who does? Children build character from school, parental guidance abd relationships, not from "yahoo chat". Character is about our actions regardless of our desires- character is internal and built through experience, personas are "built online".
Also the stigma that fabulous polished baby boomers are propping up in-person work is a complete misconception. They dont show up at all- the people in office at Schwab are younger people on the phone and its a shame that more experienced professionals dont show up to support them while they do the hard work of dealing with clients.
Remote work is great. You dont need to be in office to become a leader, but the office is one of many opportunities you might be missing out on to do so. To witness actual reactions to your work could help you improve.
Keep in mind, remote work wasn't available to many of us pre-pandemic due to FINRA and the SEC. We may be forced back any time because clients dont want their life-savings looked after by what is perceived as slobs in pajamas. If you want to work remotely, you'll eventually need to convince customers or "the market" that it's in their best interest for you to be remote. Good luck with that.
Or, the people are just being babies and need to get over it. Grow up. This is the real world.
Man the guy below must have had a bad commute to work this morning….