Is the SAS championship attempting to celebrate what the company once was?
Has the annual event become little more than a photo-op and a waste of money without meaningful ROI?
25 replies (most recent on top)
I can also relate to the experience of bad management not recognizing good ideas.
I was fortunate to have a coworker that mentored me when I came to SAS. We had two managers in sequence that would shoot down any idea I brought forward, but for the good of SAS my mentor would often follow-up and present the same idea a week or so later, where it was met with eager acceptance. My mentor would try to send the credit towards me but these managers (one is retired, the other is of course now a senior director) would disavow that I'd ever said a word.
Hanging on for retirement. Would really like to get 6 more years.
“This board is great therapy for those who were shamed and punished for trying to work in a competent and professional manner.”
Thank you so much for writing that.
My experience in SAS R&D was that bringing your manager your best ideas typically resulted in shaming and punishment. Some managers practiced visible micro-aggressions; others quietly reduced your raises and bonuses.
The reason for these reactions was that most managers could not tell the difference between good and bad ideas. They could tell the difference between your ideas and theirs — and they needed their ideas to be the good ones. Even if you were only trying to initiate discussion, in an honest attempt to help, they became defensive and punitive.
I saw this in Version 7, when management believed that no object-oriented language met our needs, so we had to invent our own. Recently it happened again with Viya. Questioning those decisions was bad for one’s career.
When your career stalls and you get punished by multiple different managers, you wonder whether you brought it on yourself. A friend actually got therapy for this reason. I didn’t; maybe I should have. Anyway this board has been therapeutic for me. It has helped me understand that I was not the only one who had a bad experience.
There are some good managers still at SAS; I had some of the best. Those people welcomed honest discussions. But they were outnumbered by those who did not. So any good idea got compromised, and the compromise was not worth the fight.
Some of my friends had a better experience -- but some were treated worse. SAS gave me a paycheck, so I'm grateful, but also relieved to be out of a toxic workplace.
SAS is not a place to innovate; it’s a place to shut up and do as you’re told. For this reason, I have no hope for its success. I only hope that friends hanging on until retirement get those last few years that they need.
@7icl+1p1G1qnl - "But Daddy keeps saying we have revenue growth!"
For sure, cronyism, nepotism, favoritism, sycophancy, incompetency...will collapse a company eventually.
"Its all politics and fealty from here on out."
Don't forget the nepotism and rank favoritism! Once only the rats are left, they won't have anything to eat but each other!
"...I worked “hard core” at SAS for many years. The company kept trying to teach me that such behavior was not desired.
Also, i learned that you can’t reason from first principles with people who don’t know those principles. They only consider you argumentative..."
This board is great therapy for those who were shamed and punished for trying to work in a competent and professional manner. Competence, professionalism, and hard work are not desired, and they shall not be rewarded (not that they ever were) here.
Its all politics and fealty from here on out.
"Finally, the company taught me that when people without education or training make decisions, they have no basis to make those decisions, other than politics."
I think you hit the nail on the head. Most of the technical decisions I'm seeing at SAS come from people that have almost zero technical skill. Management seems to have a "check the box" mentality and sc--w it if the tech actually works... How is the Viya Azure Marketplace offering going? This approach should scare the he-l out of those left at SAS. When it comes to decision making most of us apply logic and reasoning... Attempting to use logic to determine the next move SAS makes is pointless.
I worked “hard core” at SAS for many years. The company kept tryng to teach me that such behavior was not desired.
Also, i learned that you can’t reason from first principles with people who don’t know those principles. They only consider you argumentative.
Finally, the company taught me that when people without education or training make decisions, they have no basis to make those decisions, other than politics.
So I fear that politics will drive the layoff decisions. Fortunately, apparently, SAS has decided to lay off only a few each year, rather than do mass layoffs like Google, Meta, and Epic Games. At least this hurts fewer people.
No doubt, the triggered commenter or has innovations and business success that approaches Elon‘s success with Tesla, SpaceX, etc. Yes, Twitter is a dumpster fire, but it’s not like there were not pre-existing problems. Elon went in like the proverbial “bull in a China shop”. The longer-term outcome remains to be seen.
If you don’t like US Visa laws then why not lobby your politicians to change them? Tens of thousands of immigrants in tech have patiently gone through the process and many have become US citizens over time. They understood the risks in coming here to graduate school on the H1B and have consequently enjoyed prosperity for themselves and their families beyond what was possible in the countries of origin.
I am a native born American and know what it is to be “hard-core“ for the long term at SAS. For the past two decades, I have witnessed politics and technical lethargy contribute significantly to the company’s decline. Elon certainly has his quirks, yet senior leaders with more of his characteristic work ethic, first principles Science/Engineering thinking and risk taking are exactly what SAS needs if it has any hope for future success.
"The truth is if someone like Elon were running SAS "
....it would likely be a failing he-l-hole that no one wants to work at. Like Twitter is now - staffed primarily employees trapped irrational by visa laws.
Fixed it for ya.
C'mon man, there are many reasons to be negative about SAS - but Elmo is literally going to go in the business school textbooks for the next couple of generations in a chapter on How To Utterly Destroy A Tech Company In Record Time
He's really good at business models built primarily around obtaining massive, massive revenue primarily from the government (Tesla, SpaceX) but that ain't Twitter and that ain't SAS.
Sorry to go off-topic but the Elmo worship here has gotten completely out of hand.
Would've been at least understandable in mid-2022 - but is just laughable after his very public 'tantrum and ideology'- driven systemic destruction of Twitter.
Let's stick to talking about SAS?
Once upon a time SAS used to listen to very carefully to its customers. Then a long around 2003 the rise of formal product management began. Progressively developers and their papers became less frequent YoY at SUGU->SGF. R&D became stratified and mucky muck directors with micromanagers under them were not uncommon.
The rank and file developers lost touch with the customer because everything was mediated through product management and the R&D (mis)-management hierarchy. Works passionate developers who put their heart and soul into the product and had personally communicated with customers were turned into software production cogs. Passion was lost. The culture of grassroots innovation that made SAS great in the first place grew into a corporate political slogfest.
The hero worship is hysterical. So many SAS employees have their identities wrapped up in being cheerleaders for SAS, they have to maintain JG on a pedestal. To topple that pedestal simply presents too great a level of cognitive dissonance for them. They must defend him to send the dissonance to ground.
If only Caitlyn Reilly did mockery videos of the SAS Cheerleading Team...
Part of the decline of SAS has to do with not developing software in partnership with customers. SAS is/was a feature factory for vanity-ware. Customers didn't feel heard, didn't find their needs or concerns met, and are now rejecting it in the market, as they should.
My guess is the posts about Elon were removed because they contained too many details about his children and relationships with their mothers. Stuff not really relevant to SAS.
The truth is if someone like Elon were running SAS the entitled lazy people would be gone and the majority of employees (especially in R&D) would be hard-core for at least 40-50 hours/week. That alone could’ve transformed SAS over the past 15 years. Anyone who doubts this does not understand SAS history and has very little-to-zero experience with what actually made the company successful in the first place [i]and[/i] has kept it from heading into decline sooner.
"What was once a great company, and a true gem of innovation in NC is going to be gone soon."
The demise of SAS has been predicted many times in the past. Things are different now but have been different during each preceding prediction.
Maybe this is it; I don't know.
LOL....They also defended their other hero, Elon and deleted unflattering posts about Elon
written by others. They probably requested the site admin to take those Elon posts down but the same information/facts are all over the internet and media.
Regarding post: @2gjy+1p1G1qnl
I love how passionate some people on this site are about defending JG. It's hysterical. Are you family? Is he your hero? Why take it so personally?
This site is generally for b*tching and moaning about SAS--hint, the guy that runs the place is going to get lots of cr-p in the process. If you can't handle that, I recommend not reading the posts here.
His golf course and his company. He is gonna run it his way on his terms. That is the way it has always been. JG might enjoy the comfort of the known...and if so, good on him. He deserves that as much as anyone else.
I still believe what JG said years ago when asked what next for SAS. His answer was something like when I am done with SAS they will be throwing dirt over me. Someone look that up and post a link! Could be way wrong but I do believe the succession plan won't gain much speed until after JG's passing. He wants to be in full control until then. Talk of IPO and buyout is like watching a fireworks show but silently knowing there was never a plan for any grand finale.
SAS was great while they were great. Anyone hired in past 10 years sadly never got to experience that any of that greatness .
Get outside and enjoy the SAS Championship. It is symbolic of past greatness and a fleeting memory rolled up into 36 holes. It is mostly a waste of time to assume too much about the future...too many variables.
Is SAS still asking SAS employees to volunteer at SAS Championship event?
“If he wants to spend his golden years spending money on silly things, and making himself feel important, he can go right ahead.”
Nice of you to give him your permission on how to spend his money.
your opinion on what constitutes silly things to spend on should be applied to you and you alone.
Not even worth commenting on the “make himself feel important” comment. Wonderfully judgmental of you. And yes this is all me being judgmental of your post
He has owned, or still owns assorted businesses including: Aan, The Umstead, Prestonwood, and others. But, as is the SAS way, SAS has always been used to prop each them up. The Umstead wasn't profitable without SAS flowing business travel (including employees) through there, and Prestonwood barely eeks out a profit due to the SAS Championship each year. All the "counting receipts" includes a lot of SAS marketing $$, which is just moving money from the SAS bank account to Prestonwood's bank account... not creating new revenue for SAS, which is the supposed point of the event. If he wants to spend his golden years spending money on silly things, and making himself feel important, he can go right ahead. But, he's selfishly driving SAS into the ground and it's really hard to watch. What was once a great company, and a true gem of innovation in NC is going to be gone soon.
Au contraire...Dr. G was running a business, it just wasn't the software business.
If I remember correctly, Dr. G. owns the golf course through another company. So he uses SAS business as a reason to advertise a golf tournament, and SAS resources to set it up.
He brings in some former golf greats as the draw, and sells tickets, drinks, memberships, and homes on the golf course.
Before the tournament starts, the tournament hosts a 5k run that people buy tickets for.
Vendors from local businesses either pay for booth space, or donate time and goods in order to advertise during the event. More "revenue", and it keeps the Event and Marketing people busy.
During the event, Dr. G gets to drink with Fuzzy Z while Donny and Bosley count receipts. It's a nice little side hustle and distraction from daily tedium, which SAS writes off as a business expense. What's not to love?
The SAS Championship has always been a joke to anyone that doesn't live in Cary. When I worked for SAS, it was like Cary shut down that week each year. I couldn't get operations people on the phone or respond to an email because they were all too busy screwing around at the golf club.
And yet, nobody could identify a specific deal that came from the event. None of my customers went to it; nor did any of my colleague's customers. It was a huge waste of money to stroke Dr G's ego that he was relevant/influential. Nonsense like that is why I left--I knew I couldn't be successful at a place where everything was wrapped up in indulging Dr G rather than running a real business.
That 5k event can be fun because its a flat course. It's also extremely painful if you've just been given "the choice".
The event is to help nudge customers into closing deals. But what if there are no customers to nudge?
"The end of the year has past, Jim, and we had several deals scheduled to close. Those deals were held up slightly, and they close first quarter. That being said, the pipeline is strong, Jim. We've got a lot of incoming deals, and we've got an active and strong pipeline. This coming year is going to be great!"
Does the Sales and Marketing people continue to spew this pablum during the semi-annual "update" presentation?