Thread regarding Ford layoffs

I wish there was a law that required companies to offer COBRA as long as a person wanted, not just 18 months.

@3oyk,

Thanks for sharing. Viabenefits is advising me to overestimate my income so that there are no unforeseen surprises the next year. Could you have foreseen your Soc Security collecting the next year, or you missed that? Perhaps choose to delay it?

I am focusing on BCBS, they are the most well known, with widest network, and can cover things if you travel. I might look at priority health. I am staying away from the anthems, Molina, etc. I think they are bottom of the barrel, I’ve heard they don’t offer much.

We all live and learn, and looks like Viabenefits is learning too, and improving their advice.

Anyone who purchased dental coverage post-COBRA got any stories or advice to share?

@3pfy I didnt underestimate my current years' income because I had none (I just lived off of savings and didnt tap into my IRA) I underestimated my next years income (during the enrollment time) because I didnt include social security that would start in the coming year, and that put me over the edge. At tax time the government said "time to pay the piper". VIA benefits didnt tell me about this, they didnt tell me that I was going into a medicaid program and I didnt know it because it wasnt called a "Medicaid" program. The name of the insurer was Molina Healthcare but I dont remember the exact plan name. I had @75 a month in premiums and I dont remember the deductible.

@3jmj

On the other hand, if you got 7 months coverage for $2000, that’s $300 per month, that’s not bad. If it was Medicaid then you likely had no monthly premiums or posts or deductibles?

Yes, I forecast my dedutibles would double, after choosing voluntary retirement in November 2022. Things have gone up a bit from there also. There are a wide variety of plans with low monthly premiums, narrower networks of overage, lower deductible, and there re higher priced ‘Cadillac-Lincoln’ plans too.

We had it too good at Ford with the HDHP plan, BCBS zero monthly premium plan and reasonable deductible.

But we have freedom of retirement and/or supplemental working somewhere , anywhere, full time or part time, where we are respected now.

@3jmj
Very interesting and informative thread.
Interesting, thanks for sharing. Can you share the exact name of your plan? Each plan Viabenefits quoted me (and BCBS agent in separate calls/investigation) has 4 links to the certificate of coverage, summary of benefits, and two other descriptive docs. I’d be surprised given this how I could accidentally stumble into Medicaid. However perhaps you mis-estimated your income?

I had 7 months that I needed to get health care coverage before I was medicare eligible. VIA benefits put me into a plan that was somehow subsidized by the government and the premiums were very reasonable (@75 per month). Well, guess what... it was a form of medicaid and the kicker was that when taxes came due in April, I was responsible for repaying a portion to the goverment. I had to write a check for a little less than 2000. The lesson learned is that you have to pay very close attention to what VIA benefits does or you might get a shock down the road.

The most helpful thread on here since I retired December 2022. Now I understand why retirees were upset with the company years ago when they stopped providing medical coverage and went to this HRA cost savings scheme. If you retire before you are Medicare eligible, you may have to go back to work to just maintain adequate health/dental insurance coverage after your HRA funds. I'm very disappointed in Ford for not treating all employees like family; especially their retirees. I'm looking at health/dental coverage options now and looks like several thousand dollars more a year to maintain about the same coverage. I'm blessed to be able to afford the incremental costs but this will likely be tough for many of our fellow retirees. Wishing everyone the best possible outcome.

@3smj+1rUCikto, Do you mean Viabenefits helped you with options on Marketplace?
I’m also a Nov 2022 retiree and have been using COBRA for 16/17 months. Six weeks ago, I signed up on Marketplace just to explore options. Next thing, I started getting lots of mail about picking a provider and if I didn’t pick one by March 14, they’d pick one for me! I also got mail about Medicaid, yet I’m not eligible.
It’s all so confusing, and I’m not sure where to turn.

@2oyb

Good point, that’s exactly the situation. I retired Nov 2022 and 16 months of COBRA coverage AND retired bliss has gone by fast. Within 60 days of the end of the 18 month period is when you can sign up for something new like ACA.

I want to also say the Viabenefits staff were very helpful and patient and explored many options and scenarios for me, and emailed me a list of five quotes.. I’ve talked to two so far, one in Dallas and one in Georgia. I highly recommend utilizing them, they will take care of carrier issues and can sign you up thru to the end. Ive not checked out dental yet.

Just to throw a curveball into the mix you need to also take into account COBRA benefits. You may qualify for COBRA for 18 months after leaving FORD. I didn't qualify for ACA because I was eligible for COBRA (they ask that question on the ACA website). I had to pay for the BCBS COBRA policy then after that expired (18 months) I could sign up with ACA.

Thanks. I found from Viabenefits, you can take marketplace premium tax credits as long as you do not take HRA. Merely having the availability/offering of HRA does not preclude you from taking premium tax credits. Of course, you also cannot take both. Makes sense now.

Also, You can opt in or opt out of HRA , year by year, as you wish, as long as you don’t double dip.

@2fca Please open another thread since this tread was meant for understanding Ford's HRA, which from responses so far is a hot mess. Falling into Medicaid land is a completely different topic.

@2bjw,

Good thoughts, thanks. Here’s an additional scenario, suppose one was to live off a pot of $$ from a Roth account for pre-Medicare years. It’s non taxable. If you dial your taxable income below say $20k, for a married couple, and supplement your needs above that with roth funds, ACA healthcare.gov gonna say “you qualify for Medicaid not ACA”. However isn’t Medicaid gonna ask “what are your total assets, house, home, cars, 401k, investments”.
If you’ve got a reasonable 401k and/or Roth’s and lump sum lying about, Medicaid would recognize that and reject you? Could you be in a no mans land between ACA and Medicaid? Thanks

Okay... This topic came up last year on this site... if you search you'll find the info. Here is what I remember:

• you can take Ford money (if you're are 2001 employee or before), or take healthcare.gov money, but not both.
• if you're not touching any of your 401K/IRA (i.e. withdraw) and living off your normal bank/brokerage savings, then it make sense to take healthcare.gov subsidy as it is better than Ford.
• But... the downside is not able to do a Roth conversion. Which is now the best time to do so, as the tax rate is super low. (Roth conversion will show up as income for the tax year)
• one additional important point. If you get an insurance through healthcare.gov, the insurance company CANNOT deny your claim or a pre-existing condition. If you go through a private insurance (outside of healthcare.gov), it might be cheaper, but all bets are off and you could end-up fighting with the insurance company if they deny a claim.

Good luck.

I found this, it refers to HRA coverage (implying a policy) however Ford doe not offer coverage, only a spending amount.

https://www.kff.org/faqs/faqs-health-insurance-marketplace-and-the-aca/im-63-and-enrolled-in-a-retiree-health-plan-from-my-former-employer-can-i-look-for-better-coverage-and-subsidies-in-the-marketplace/

From the link:
=========
I’m 63 and enrolled in a retiree health plan from my former employer. Can I look for better coverage and subsidies in the Marketplace?

Yes, as long as you do so during the Open Enrollment period.

If you are enrolled in employer-provided retiree health coverage, and if your income is at least 100% of the Federal Poverty Level, you may also qualify for premium tax credits. However, there’s one exception. Some employers may provide retired employees with access to an account, called a health reimbursement arrangement (or HRA) that the retiree may use to reimburse medical expenses, including an individual policy through a Marketplace or in the non-group market. A retiree that signs up for an HRA offered by a former employer is considered to have minimum essential coverage from an employer and would therefore would not be eligible to claim a premium tax credit if he or she enrolled in a Marketplace plan.

Remember that outside of Open Enrollment, you cannot voluntarily drop your retiree coverage and replace it with other Marketplace coverage.

@1brc , I hear you.

I’m the OP and this scenario is a gray area. First, I believe once you go on Medicare, I believe the HRA becomes an annual amount of $1800, not the monthly $500 retired employee/$500 spouse benefit.

Second, my talk with the BCBS agent on the phone seemed to lead to the thought that govt wants to drive you to use HRA benefits, instead of ACA subsidies. That makes sense as it’s less money out out the ACA. But our Ford HRA has no plan attached, so it’s not actual coverage.

Third, I understand recent rules regarding HRA spending have changed to benefit employee, and spending on health items not related to premiums is allowed, similar t HSA or FSA. So if this is the case, does this apply to our HRA or is our HRA frozen in the legal state in which it was issued?

Fourth, Ford probably sends a notice to the IRS that it gave you HRA dollars, and this is a write-off for Ford.

I plan to ask Viabenefits, and also ask an independent agent as well.

So much conflicting information from VIA Benefits and my BCBS market place insurance regarding Ford's retiree-only HRA. I would love to hear from someone on here who has talked to a lawyer or tax accountant to understand tax credits and Ford's retiree-only HRAs.

FWIW, here's what I am doing. I am pre-medicare. I get more from tax credits than I get from Ford's HRA contribution. I am NOT accessing Ford's HRA money and I am getting tax credits for my marketplace plan. I will access Ford's HRA money to pay for medical expenses AFTER I turn 65 and go on medicare.

I have received NO tax documentation from VIA Benefits regarding my retiree-only HRA, and have just finished my 2023 taxes using the tax credits. As far as I can tell, no where in the tax code did Ford's retiree-only HRA contribution come into question. No tax documentation from VIA and nothing in the tax documentation leaves me feeling a little confused.

Anyone with thoughts?

All that I’ve read so far ties the HRA to policy/coverage offered by employer, and if, after HRA is employees contribution ‘affordable’.

Fords HRA offered to early retirees is tied to no offered coverage thru employer, therefore this is difficult to determine.

Anyone had luck buying a policy outside of healthcare.gov with or without the help of sales agent?

OP here: What I’ve read in the Ford plan description is “IRS considers HRA as qualified plan coverage”….(something like that)…. But it’s really a stipend and not coverage at all.

I will inquire with Viabenefits… they are supposed to be our ‘concierge’ to help navigate.

Not worried about HSA vs HRA.

You can pay out of pocket costs with HRA dollars too... There is a lot of conficting info on HRA..

Also, HSA might not be possible with HRA. Very confusing if you read IRS website.

Funny thing is Ford has not sent me any tax documents on my HRA.

VIA Benefits is the gatekeeper of HRA funds so submit receipts and cross fingers...

So why can't you get a discounted plan and pay out of pocket for premiums and only use the HRA funds for out of pocket costs?