Thread regarding Cisco Systems Inc. layoffs

I worked with a guy from Kansas and he was one of the few good software engineers at Cisco (not a typical Cisco “coder” who checks in code that won’t even compile which is why nightly builds failed for months at a time.)

The company said outright two decades ago they were moving as much work to India as possible and offering people in the US the wonderful opportunity to move there on their own nickel for a giant pay cut. It’s not that you’re a prize, they just can’t get anyone there to replace you at the rates they pay.

At least for software if everyone in SJ suddenly ceased to exist it’s likely the quality would improve over time. “We only overran the budget by a factor of 20 and the performance improvement code is far larger, fragile and buggy while being only 13 times SLOWER than the original code! We just committed it and the executives are having a party to celebrate how successful we are! We are so great!” You are actually far worse than useless. A competent organization would have ki---d the program years earlier and kicked a lot of extremely senior technical and managerial people out the door. The same underlying problems occurred in every program I encountered out there.

The bay area is filled with Distinguished BS artists that simply move from one place to another then eventually return to Cisco to ‘retire’. No real skills

It's truly entertaining to watch the Bay Area drones convince themselves how wonderful they are. Of course, they live in an unaffordable dumpster fire so they have to find a way to convince themselves that it's worth it.

How many engineers are getting squeezed into those 2 bedroom apartments around the San Jose campus these days?

“Do you really believe tech workers in the Bay Area are smarter, better, more productive?” - Yes

They're not smarter. They just came from richer families to be able to afford the inflated housing/rental costs and the over-priced private colleges there. He-l, how many of those rich kids who had their parents buy/bribe their way into college would have gotten in on their own merits?

The whole "smarter, better, more productive" has to be measured on personal work ethics and not just location. If you read this forum, how many people are bragging about working an hour a day? Is that "more productive"? Are they "better" or "smarter"?

I guess, if you can do a week's worth of work in 5 hrs & make your manager think you're productive, I guess you are better and smarter. But if you're just barely doing the minimum and hardly working, then that's not better or smarter and will probably catch up to you one day.

@4lbj+1hgfWYx3, so your Berkeley education results in poor grammar, so you're better than people who live in Boise or Santa Fe? What the he-l does ..."Boise your Santa Fe"... mean?

Because if you’re d-mb enough to move to Boise your Santa Fe, you aren’t as good.

I'd say getting a quality education, then getting a job that pays tech industry wages--even if it's not Bay area level--and then doing said job remotely in a low cost of living area is a smart thing.

I've got a co-worker who has a 3500-sq ft home 5BDR/4BA with a finished basement for $300K in the city/state he lives in. That's a $1.5M dollar home here and several million in the Bay area. You just sound jealous of people who chose not to live in over-inflated housing/rental areas and make as much as you do.

“ Do you really believe tech workers in the Bay Area are smarter, better, more productive?”

Yes

@4xig+1hgfWYx3 Because if you’re d-mb enough to move to Boise your Santa Fe, you aren’t as good.

OP is another genius. What's inherently different about a skilled worker who lives in San Jose and one who lives in Boise? Do you really believe tech workers in the Bay Area are smarter, better, more productive? If I get a CS degree from Berkeley and live in Santa Fe, how does this make me suddenly less qualified? Bay Area workers are actually very expensive, that's the only difference. The main benefit of being in the Bay Area from an employer's standpoint is the sheer quantity of available candidates. Most people I met in San Jose are getting ripped off by paying outrageous rents and mortgages. Salaries are higher but rents and mortgages eat up the delta.

good thing about workin from home is i get to sc--w my gf during lunch break. she work from home too and we take break at the same time. nice perk indeed.

Yes

yes

Our group is actively hiring outside of bay area at wonderful locations such as RTP, Texas, Portland, etc. I'm guessing this is not just for fun.

"why Cisco keep offshoring the jobs to India"

Because it's dirt cheap. We get what we pay for: low quality. Someone figured the cost of the resulting customer discontent is offset by the savings harvested by offshoring, so we keep moving jobs to India. Simple way to make the bottom line look better. Shortsighted because customer loyalty only stretches that far before it breaks.

if folks in India are not that good enough, why Cisco keep offshoring the jobs to India.

• unless the data center and/or lab relocates too ..

You’ve got another thing coming. Cisco has long written off all lab gear. As a matter of fact the trend is to close labs hosted in expensive locations. No job in IT is secure, Cisco or not. Don’t fool yourself. Most of our jobs are plain BS jobs. We’re not brain surgeons saving children lives.

I do not think many execs worry too much about quality

Offshoring will never replace the quality and service provided onshore. Ever. Lots of companies try. Then they learn hard lessons and have to scramble to get things right again, onshore, for 5+ years.

And you'd think companies would learn their lesson. Companies have been finding this out the hard way since early 2000. In 2002, I worked at a company that outsourced development offshore, but kept QA and configuration management in the US. The time wasted sending work back offshore due to the mistakes QA caught slowed down release schedules drastically, but it was deemed OK until competitors started eating our lunch by providing better services/features faster.

But Capitalism is all about the bottom line and the short term view. They never learn.

Working from home has nothing to do with being replaceable

It does have something to do with being replaceable. Certainly if you don't perform, at home or in the office, you can be replaced. But if you can work at home instead of in the office, then your job can be filled wherever wages are cheaper than your wages because being in the office is not required.

Unfortunately, while I can work from home, having to go into a data center or lab to put hands on hardware occasionally ties me to a geographic location, but also means my job can't be relocated out of state or out of the country unless the data center and/or lab relocates too.

I love working at home. Been working remote for 7 years and have ever set foot in a Cisco office. I get a Bay area salary with a Midwest cost of living.

I find that hard to believe. Unless you're faking your address w/ HR & Payroll. Cisco does NOT pay Bay area wages to people who don't live in CA.

I recently found out that I can take my RTP salary and move to GA, TN, TX areas and not get a pay cut. I'm not sure if Austin is cheaper than RTP, but Dallas/Richardson certainly are. And no state income tax.

I love working at home. Been working remote for 7 years and have ever set foot in a Cisco office. I get a Bay area salary with a Midwest cost of living.

Elon, is that you?

One of these things does not follow the other. Offshoring will never replace the quality and service provided onshore. Ever. Lots of companies try. Then they learn hard lessons and have to scramble to get things right again, onshore, for 5+ years.

I think the OP is onto something here.

Look how many people moved outside the Bay Area. Every new role is open to people anywhere in the US, so there is more competition for roles.

Using logic, if someone somewhere else in the US can do the role, you can argue that it can be give to someone who is not in the US, right...

We proved that we can work remotely, now the management can use that fact against us and can hire remote workers who are not in the Bay Area, right?

I would love to work at the office but I am not allowed to enter the office or visit customers because of a medical condition I was born with. I have heard that the company is very inclusive of some types of people - but not so much for others.

Ya it can be replaced, if you suck at it. Which would be the case even if you are in the office. Duh. Working from home has nothing to do with being replaceable

I like doing both. It’s nice to work from home if I have some work that requires lots of focus. However, actually building relationships with a team seems to be most effective in-person (imo).

Personally, I HATE working from home, and that's where I am now until the end. It sucks.

Tell me you’re a boomer without saying it