The 'senior lead' positions, which I guess is Wells Fargo term for a IC Director/Executive Director (which of the two does Wells Fargo actually use?)...are these fixed games? As in, the hiring manager already has someone internal lined up but to make the process 'fair' and 'balanced', sets up interviews with external candidates and then rejects them all in favor of the internal one? Is this generally always true or only in some cases?
Enquiring minds want to know
There is no requirement for a job to be posted externally. The hiring manager can post something internal -only.
Jobs posted externally get a flood of resumes, and that’s why they can and do get taken down early. Other firms have similar policies. Sometimes jobs get reposted quickly if something changes in the requirements, usually location being added or taken away.
Like almost everything else in the company, there were very sloppy practices about how job postings were closed - as regulators crawled through this place that was one of the things that got tightened up as a result.
At Wells Fargo, especially in tech, it’s pretty common to see hiring done by Indian management. It’s something a lot of people are already aware of.
A few in here get it, most are just ignorant fools posting hot garbage blanket statements.
Postings with 24-72 hr life spans are hardly “inside jobs”. Positions have been posted, filled, then the applicant backed out in zero hour. The next in line choice can’t simply be offered the position because of policies and system functions. Roles must be reposted, with the expectation that previous candidates will reapply…….which doesn’t always happen.
Externals are favored more here. As an internal it pains me to say it but that’s what Wells needs on the whole. The complacency and legacy staffing is what has led Wells down this trail of failure. The good internals are losing because of the boogers who’ve clung on far too long.
But on the whole, why NOT hire someone you have in mind already? Oh I know, everyone is hung up on “the best candidate for the position” mantra and conflate that into “the best fit in this exact second” without the ability to look ahead. Using the thought process of many of the respondents here no one would ever be able to move higher via opportunity unless pure bags of azz applied. Need to take a chance on giving jr levels opportunities.
With no opportunity for anyone to be promoted, and no backfilling in the states, yes, someone on a team who has needed a promotion will get it so they can keep them.
as an outsider, I must say that external candidates seem to at least get some consideration at Wells Fargo, at least for mid-level positions.
it is far worse at U.S. Bank which hires almost entirely internal and through referral and recommendation but still puts up listings to waste time.
If it’s tech and you are not Indian you have no shot
Especially credit risk under KM. They hate institutional knowledge and good relationships with the business like we use to have. RK decides where the hubs are and will have you cut while he and his buddies get to stay in California. Rules for thee but not for me. I have one foot out the door and will never look back.
White and black fellas need not apply
@ba In my case, the recruiter was kind enough to tell me the decision was an internal candidate. Most other recruiters would have just ghosted I guess. This one turned out to care enough to at least say who the hire was. Agreed that maybe the internal could have been stronger but its hard to swallow that the whole decision was made in 4 days' time assuming there would have been at least 1 or 2 others besides me
@ba+1jxwse3m4 I think banks should make a balanced hire of internals and externals. Internals have institutional knowledge for sure, but externals also bring fresh, new ideas from other places. There's more than one way to do something, after all!
If you're external, understand this: comments here aside, the word from the top is pretty clear and externals are heavily favored. You can pay them more in many scenarios compared with an internal promotion. Execs hate long time employees here, so you likely have a better shot than you think. If you don't get selected, it is what it is. It's possible that another external beat you out. We all like to think we're the best candidate in the universe, sorta like how everyone things they are a great driver. The real world says most of us are wrong in that regard. Sometimes there really is just a better candidate. I've been beat out for jobs before, and I doubt it's some kind of grand conspiracy.
they will post it for only a day or two because even if just a day certain positions will get a lot of applicants. otherwtines they will add a location not previously on the posting because they have a strong candidate they are willing to make an exception for .
Sometimes they close early due to enough applications or a good pool of candidates. Most posting even say they'll close it early if XYZ...
@ar Typically, the postings I have clicked on have never survived more than a week. Only Wells does it this way. Others are notoriously slow in closing postings. Sometimes, they're not closed even after the hire decision has been made
Can usually tell WF 'inside job' post - someone else already in mind for job but they are going through check the box motions - when you see a very short gap between position post start date and post close date (application deadline). Anything posted with less than a week before posting close is inside job. Have seen jobs with 24 hours or maybe 48 hours between post start and post close dates. Have also seen postings where posting closed suddenly then reposted under new req id but same job title and responsibilities a few days later. Have also seen job closed then reposted with lower job level and minor changes to job title and responsibilities. Don't waste you time unless you have inside connections or come from JPM.
On this same thread, people have argued that hiring is “fixed” because the hiring manager already knows who they are hiring from the outside, and then there are people arguing that there’s no hope for an external because an internal has already been identified and posting a job externally is just a requirement/ruse.
Sometimes, a hiring manager does have a connection internally or externally that would be great for the job and encourages them to apply. But they still do have to go through the interview process and sometimes get knocked out along the way
Someone at the “senior executive” level (M6) and above as a hiring manager can do something called “direct placement” - don’t have to post the job, with their manager’s agreement they can just hire the person in directly.
Wells Fargo typically only posts jobs for positions they already have a candidate for. The posting is plausible deniability for any lawsuit about hiring practices. Been that way forever.
Low level jobs are less likely to operate this way, but still do, at times.
my favorite postings are the ones designated for h1b but only get posted to meet legal requirements.
In reality it varies to much to even be useful information. I've had candidates in mind and selected them, I've had candidates in mind and selected someone else based on interviews, and I've had times where none of the internal candidates can be trusted to do anything and weren't considered at all.
Folks, all those who replied - a big thank you. In this market, it's such a waste of time, effort and hope for an external candidate many of whom would honestly prepare for an interview hoping to ace it but not knowing that they don't stand a chance. Not because they aren't good enough but because the actual candidate is already selected. This should actually be illegal instead of being a compliance charade. Not that Wells alone does it...competiting banks do it too. I suppose I will steer clear of any 'senior lead' (the P5 being talked about here I guess) or 'Senior Manager' (the M3 being talked about here?) and save my time.
Are recruiters in on the scam as well or they're not told and are honestly going about trying to recruit candidates for the role in good faith?
in many cases regardless of level managers know who they want to hire and go through the motions, but that doesn't apply to every case. I've been a p5 for almost 2 years, applied for the job internally. I had no previous experience with the manager or team. When all was said and done I was the best candidate.
The crazy thing about these P5 positions is that they’re basically M3 roles in disguise just without the pay, the title, or the authority. You’re expected to lead initiatives, influence across teams, make high-level decisions, and operate at an executive mindset… but officially, you’re still “just” a P5. It’s wild.
They’ll tell you it’s “equivalent to M3,” like that’s supposed to be a compliment. But it’s not a promotion. it’s a workaround. A way to extract manager-level output while avoiding giving you the actual recognition or accountability that comes with it. It’s not career advancement. It’s a shell game.
And what makes it worse is that a lot of these roles are externally posted, even when they’re already lined up for someone internally. So now it’s not just under-leveled responsibility. it’s wrapped in a fake hiring process too. Total scam.
Wells Fargo is required to post many of its job openings externally, even when the hiring manager already knows who they want to hire. It’s not about finding the best candidate — it’s about checking a compliance box. The company operates under strict federal contractor regulations, so in order to avoid scrutiny from the government or lawsuits over hiring bias, they go through the motions of pretending a job is open to the public. It’s a formality, not a meritocracy. Internally, it creates frustration. Employees who have worked in the system for years are forced to compete against external applicants for roles that should be promotions or transfers. Managers waste time reviewing résumés for positions that are already quietly promised to someone. The whole thing becomes a charade — a performance of fairness that’s more about protecting the company than creating actual opportunity. In the end, it’s not about transparency or inclusion. It’s about liability and optics. The process looks open, but often the outcome is already decided.
In my experience, almost all P5 position managers know who they are going to hire. Not even worth trying (maybe you have a better shot if its a lateral).