Thread regarding Intel Corp. layoffs

I went through a bitter divorce and child custody battle last year. Got ISP this year. No Intel management has any compassion for my situation.

@1jrs Intel is a huge beast and poorly mismanaged run company. There is minimal accountability for actions of dishonest management and even pathetic HR (org full of morons) supports them against the meek and innocent hard working people. It is a culture they breathe and breed through the dysfunction.

It is not possible to change it, unless they change their company structure.

Each org does whatever they want to. They have their own sales, their own PMO, their own IT, their own whatever - Intel is not a ONE COMPANY, ONE TEAM or have ONE GOAL.

Each team is their own themselves, running by their own rules with no watch or guards over their misconducts.

Intel ODI are a total waste with no action taken against the perpetrators despite being found guilty. All good people should leave Intel, let the dumb stay behind.

Then it may be a better idea to not attend these HEALTH and MENTAL WELL BEING events Intel organizes for it's employees to gauge at how you are doing ?!!?!!

Any counseling should be off Intel Campus and private.

Don't go around sharing your private matters or problems at work or with coworkers. I know it might be difficult for some Intel unprofessionals that chose to be friends with their colleagues outside work.

It's pretty darn simple, folks: Intel reverse engineers the layoff criteria (algorithm) based on which employee characteristics it wants to rid itself of: namely older, higher paid employees.

Intel management is poorly trained, inconsistent in application of rules and policies (like SL4) and highly political. It's quite easy for a manager who doesn't like you - for whatever reason - to give you a Successful / SL4 for anything or nothing, including some real or imagined issue about attending medical appointments (psychological or otherwise), tending to a sick loved ones or just taking sabbatical or vacation.

Bottom line: If you're not in the "in crowd" with your manager, you're always vulnerable, no matter your performance, accomplishments or workload. Does that motivate employees or create The Hunger Games? I'll let Mr. "Intel is not a social agency" decide...

Sorry you got ISPed @1vdg, but you did the right thing in my opinion. I too was told to tell everything I knew to some dumb*ss that only used others to do her job. (long story I won't go into here). Think of it as them doing you a favor to collect some money and find a much better job. :)

I got ISP, poor performer. I figured out solution for key technical issue but refused to share with technical lead who can not solve any technical problems for years, but very good at collecting results from others and show them as his to upper managers. In my focal, I was lack of teamwork.

Never gonna happen @1jqc. It should, but it won't. I, like others I'm sure, have our "list". If only they'd just ask us for it it would make the ISP list a lot easier on folks. lol It would be the real people that need the ax, not those that hit some sort of HR criteria that is FAR from accurate as most everyone knows.

I've observed a few occurrences of the flip side -- low-performers who received BEs or were the focus of a possible BE who responded with harassment claims against their manager. Intel folded on both accounts. In fact, one of them is now a PE and I haven't seen the guy do one shred of work in 8 years (it was always the lower-grade employees on the team who did the work). Intel needs to figure out who their contributors are, who are worth keeping but need help, and who the zero-value-add BSers are.

White male left expectancy dropping fast, world getting less violent

Yeah, I understand him trying but I knew the Open Door wouldn't work either in this case @pzb. Sad but true.

-lve

I have a team which is nearly 80% women, half Asians. A dream to manage, these people are rock solid.

I spend 90% time dealing with the low performance men who have issue after issue.

During the interview process I know these women are solid spend most of the time understanding values, their relationship to their kids, hobbies. I would stay away from divorced people, any druggie etc... my group always under budget, head count. Many mental issues come from family dynamics, stay away from that. I am not a social worker.

@JeYUQqj-lve

I totally agree, there is no way out of this.

That guy even tried to do open doors, but we all know this is bs...

Re: After that he stated seeing lots of emails from his manager saying "you forgot this, you should've done this the other way etc". At first he was trying to explain himself that this was how things were done by other engineers and was por in group, and get manager to agree with him

I hate to sound mean but as much as he wanted to prove he was right, he should have seen the writing on the wall that he was being set up for failure and NOTHING he said or did mattered any longer. Sad but true.

Been there, done that, learned to shut up and 'take it' the hard way. HR and your managers are not your friend. If you get on the bad/other side of them you are doomed.

OP here to @kdp

Well, that's the case. While you can argue that any kind of mental issues can affect productivity long term and is hard to measure, none of the cases I have in mind (except one - poor girl was on call for few weeks and eventually was rushed into hospital when she had breakdown due to sleep deprivation) had anything to do with any breakdowns, physical or mental.

In some cases I was told it looked like self fulfilling prophecy. Oh, you went to a doctor with complaints about stress? Your productivity probably low. And then start looking for signs of this"low productivity". One guy I talked to, swears that 99% of his misses in his IR focal were normal POR workflow for their group. He had two valid misses which he totally agreed to, but then other guys had more serious misses, yet their focal was OK. I don't know how true this is, but he said he felt this kind of scrutiny right after he took short MLOA that his doctor insisted on. Poor guy just needed a week to catch on sleep. After that he stated seeing lots of emails from his manager saying "you forgot this, you should've done this the other way etc". At first he was trying to explain himself that this was how things were done by other engineers and was por in group, and get manager to agree with him, only later to see all these emails cited in his focal.

Health care and employment is just white proffesionals welfare. Health care needs to be Universal not employment based, plus it's tax free. Companies need to stop being mommy

@JeYUQqj-gou: U.S. style mental health treatment is frowned upon in India. Would have been better off telling your Indian manager you were going to one of those neverending IIndia ERG Art of Living or Traveling Swami events they have on campus. That is how Indians deal with mental stress, not with psychologists or antidepressants. It is a well-known cultural difference. Google 'mental health' 'taboo' 'India' and see what all pops up.

@JeYUQqj-nbs. Mental issues do not necessarily impact productivity, in fact some kinds of mental singularities make some kinds of productivity better according to reports I've seen. The issue is when people have a crisis or a breakdown that leaks over into the workplace; yes, that could affect your Focal ratings just like any other breakdown, physical or mental, and in today's environment, land you with an IR or an SSL4 that in the past might have been survivable, but today is not. Another thing Intel is very sensitive to is employee suicides; HR Legal is usually involved to make sure no one can make a case that Intel work environment led them to it. At the end of the day, I think Intel does as good or better than any other workplace to offer MLOA and EAP etc. As to the poster who's Indian manager seemed aghast at his having a standing mental health appt--that is a culture difference that is well-known. Traditionally mental health issues of any kind in Indian society are frowned upon and kept secret.

Do mental health issues always have impact on productivity?

I have high-functioning borderline personality disorder. Which means as a professional I'm good, but I really s--- at personal relationships.

I've been going through DBT (kind of behavioral therapy) for few years now and now that i joined Intel I need to find a good doctor in the area.

Are you saying I might be targeted as soon as somewhere in my paperwork they see word "mental"?

I don't have any mental issues. But I do go to a psychologist. I think it's a good practice.

One week my psychologist asked to reschedule our meeting a little bit earlier, so I asked my manager it I could leave early. Mentioned to him that it was a one time thing, my weekly meeting with psychologist was rescheduled.

Manager, Indian guy, looked at me like I was crazy and asked "What's wrong with you so you have to go to psychiatrist?". I understand it's not common in India and the guy doesn't even know the difference between psychologist and psychiatrist, but the next thing i know in a month I got SL4 (SL2-3 all previous years) and I was walked out

OP here to @kmj.

I perfectly know what you're talking about, so I'm asking about more specific cases.

I agree, in some cases I know about, performance might be not high.

But I have quite some cases where I'm pretty sure performance was pretty good, or mental health issues were two and more years ago, or were very minor, something like "I sleep four hours a day on average because I have to hold pager, and I can't get good sleep on my normal workdays, give me some pills" kind of stuff.

Somebody I know was let go in 2015. Everyone agreed his performance was outstanding. I don't know if it was rating or stock level, but he was let go. Also I know he had to go to a doctor with a mental health issue a year before he was let go and he did that through Intel.

When can people distinguish causation and correlation. It's entirely possible that these individuals had issues with handling work related stress due to mental health issues and were not successful in their job and hence got a bad review and got axed. That doesn't mean Intel went out and profiled them about this. Causation vs correlation . Read about it before opining

Danging $250 in front of people to have their health records attached to their employee file always seemed a bit shady to me.

But as far as mental health issues go, we kept BK, so that theory doesn't quite hold water.

Re: Intel fires people with mental health issues?

If they did there'd be no one left to work there so I'm saying they don't do that.

Older employees have known for a long time not to make it known that they are on MLOA for mental health issues or alcohol/substance abuse. Millennials may be naive enough to think that doesn't count against you. However, on the flip side, I personally have seen people at Intel game the MLOA system to a remarkable degree. One colleague spent 2.5 years of her last four years at Intel going from one kind of leave to another, putting just enough time in between each to stay technically legal. Meanwhile, she was posting photos of herself at triathlons on Facebook. She eventually ran out of rope and left Intel and is doing just fine with apparently no remaining effects of her so-called crippling ailments. Another colleague, who is still there and in fact has moved up the management ladder, has been on three MLOAs in the past five years, also while posting photos of his worldwide travels on Facebook. I do agree with one earlier poster though: going through a divorce or mental health crisis or even medical crisis can affect performance and contributions enough to land you in SSL4 territory. In the old days you could be on leave for quite awhile and not have to worry about anything more than a redeployment--which happened to a very close colleague of mine when he had an emotional crisis related to divorce and went on two closely spaced leaves in a row.. In today's more stringent 'find a way to cut more' environment, a bad year due to health can be enough to put you into ISP or VSP territory. To be honest, I don't think Intel is unique here. In my prior company, we had a raging alcoholic (like, showing up hammered at 8 a.m. meetings) who got one MLOA and then he was out. I think that was fair.

@hts is spot on. Not only unethical, dishonerable, but most likely against the law. HIPAA says they should not even have access to my health records without my permission. Think of your code of conduct training. Imagine the PR damage if the speculated practice were made public. Intel would be foolish and in deep trouble at least in the US if they went there. Personally I dont believe intel is that dumb.

Much more likely that someone in crisis performance falls off, they dont ask for an mloa to get healthy, get the L4 and then we know what happens.

Mental health issues are a psychiatric disability and are covered by the Americans with Disabilities Act.

https://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/psych.html

@zao and @dmf are part of the problem with Intel's management. It is unethical to treat people as instrumental, as only a means to an end. People are the end. The wellbeing of your employees is the most important priority in a business. From that, the business results thrive.

To @uhd you can be compassionate and smart. Pay the person his or her normal salary minus commute and other work related cost. The organization is more productive and the indidvual can go fix get help. Ps a non productive person spreads the negitive production. Example going thru a divorce say is40% less productive makes others around them say even 5% less productive times 25 people. What makes more sense. When they are not a drag they can rejoin

There is a big difference between bad luck, and being stupid. I don't mind paying if u have a heart attack, I mind paying if you are 80 lbs over weight, smoke and drink a six pack each day. There is personal responsibilty somewhere?

Exactly @zao

Intel isn't a charity.

They are in a global fierce competitive marketplace (new concept I know).

Freeloaders affect those that actually work and produce value.

Wow @-zao is chock full of compassion today

I see no problem with policy. Intel is not a social agency, we pay taxes for those short term disabailty, long term and social security. You are at Intel to produce value, if you can't get out. You would not keep a solider who can't fight, they leave and get benefits.

I am tired of go easy on Joe/mary they are going thru a divorce, have this problem etc...if you can not perform stay home, take sick days, vacation, short long term disabilty. If after six months you can't perform take social security. Intel is not a nursing home or shrink....out, out, out