Another example of GE losing because of GE's culture of arrogance. Siemens listened to the customer and provided incentives to meet both parties needs. GE tried to charge the customer for Test performed in Greenville. As you know, GE's Greenville Testing didn't help GE on the massive combustion failures they are currently having at multiple customer sites. Nobody wins when customers select GE.
Originally from @NQLa3Pn-1hoo.
@NTVOVGV-6gsx good point! GE spends more than the cost of two turbines in their R&D Test stand alone in Greenville. GE pays many engineers salaries to do nothing but sit and wait (for the next program) or watch contractors all day. Siemens is the smart one, they let the customer pay for the facility, and they win sales.
Why wouldn't Duke go with Siemens. If the unit they bought doesn't perform they way they said it would, Siemens owes them 2 free turbines.
The GE Engineering Arrogance is so predictable. If they are proven wrong they start pointing out typo's. HILARIOUS! @NTVOVGV-5kdu is exactly correct, the arrogance is not going to help them. It will be their demise. I will say though, the arrogance is not limited to GE Engineering. The manufacturing side has their fair share of arrogance. It will not help them either.
@NTVOVGV-4cgw has it right. I'm surprised by how many engineers in Greenville have no idea about the testing that goes beyond the scope they personally have a connection to. Customers have an awareness, though, especially for the production testing that they explicitly pay for, and they are very angry about these failures (justifiably so). Deep cuts are coming to Greenville, too. Get ready or get surprised, as your arrogance will not protect you.
The customer that has a dead power plant is also saying, "Nuts, I knew better than to by a GE gas turbine".
To the non native English speaking (Alstom?) Gentleman who said " paralysis my analysis culture did not discover the flaws" I say nuts
The bottom line; GE charges customers for Production Unit Testing in Greenville. Most GE engineers are tunnel visioned on the R&D Testing. You are correct, the R&D testing is also paid for by the customer in margin. But since the last couple fleets are failing, the margins are going to be difficult to recover. The paralysis my analysis culture did not discover the flaws in either the R&D testing or Production Testing. The R&D testing cost is extreme and the investment did not save the flaws from reaching the customer. GE is now considering the cancellation, suspension, or relocation of the R&D program. At least until cost can catch up with revenue. So to the engineer in GTTL or GTTC that keeps posting, get your resume ready.
Ok let's break this down. A new turbine such as Harriet is tested because it's a new design. The customer doesn't pay for that. The customer doesn't pay for the r&d or testing that is part of the cost of developing new tech. You could make the case that the cost is paid for by the margin on a turbine but other then that your wrong.
Both GE' 50 Hz and 60 Hz gas turbines have been experiencing failures in the field.
Yes, GE does charge for testing at Greenville. Every turbine that is built is not tested. Just like every turbine that is built doesn't come frome Greenville. Fact is the turbines that failed may have come from Europe or Asia since they are 50hz turbines and that's where GE moved their production to.
Talking about "wasting time". Ask the customers that purchased a GE gas turbine recently about wasting time. The new units that died with less than 1000 hours. Everybody's time is wasted. Including the engineering time and manufacturing time that went in to building the piece of "you know what".
The bottom line is the customer (Duke Energy) selected Siemens because the they found greater value in the product and services Siemens offered. Siemens offered incentives to partner with Duke and both agreed to Test at Dukes site. GE DOES charge customers for gas turbine testing in Greenville. Depends on contractural agreements and sales negotiations. Siemens won. GE lost. Congratulations to Siemens for a job well done.
I'm so sick of hearing that ge tried to charge the customer for "Test performed in Greenville" either you don't work for ge or you don't understand what happens in Greenville. Either way stop wasting everyone's time