So after reviewing the title changes, the only thing comes to mind.... Well, same old garbage that we have been fed for the past several years... Zero benefit, the people @ staff positions will now be pulled towards the middle and people at the bottom will now feel like they are closer to the middle range. Form this angle it will be harder to see through the hiring lingo, which band and or salary bracket an engineering employee is actually or should be... For some odd reason this one really hit the nerve. Vacation has been taken, flex time is frowned upon, "mandatory" overtime, no raises, list goes on. I understand the need to simplify titles, but there is plenty of other titles that could be adjust.
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Standardizing is a way of identifying the deadwood. And there's plenty of it.
How many people with the title manager or director have zero direct reports in the org chart?
A whole f—load.
Deadwood.
THe new titles actually align Aerospace with corporate job titles. And if looking for positions outside of HW... look for years of experience to figure out what to apply for!
- 3nlm you really have this one wrong. It isn't socialism at all. It is unchecked capitalism. As a couple others mentioned, it is a clear strategy by Honeywell to roll through their systemic labor reductions.
I think whoever wrote the following is spot on. The example makes it look as though the jobs are all somehow the same when they really are not.
"This is being done to streamline layoffs. When layoffs are done they need to group people together. It's hard to do when titles are different because the jobs are so different. Look at the example they posted. Those jobs are not transferable. But in a layoff you declare them all the same and just pick the 25% you want to get rid of. This should speed up the layoffs"
I also think the "bump up" effect is there to placate the juniors since they're gonna dump a whole lotta work on them, for sure, once they get rid of the people who have experience doing it.
It has a nauseating socialism tone to it. Those at the bottom got a bump up, and those at the top end clearly got a demotion (at least in terms of title).
This is being done to streamline layoffs. When layoffs are done they need to group people together. It's hard to do when titles are different because the jobs are so different. Look at the example they posted. Those jobs are not transferable. But in a layoff you declare them all the same and just pick the 25% you want to get rid of. This should speed up the layoffs
Not a single one of those jobs would be on the same career path, just shows how ignorant HR is of Engineering and the specialized skills, training and experience required
Expect more layoffs soon when they layoff all those expensive aeronautics engineers and chemical engineers and replace them with lower cost train engineers since they are all "engineers"
Resume is done, LinkedIn profile updated and now marked as open to new opportunities
@11F80WTN-1zto There should be a class action lawsuit because you're totally right. Designed to screw us over.
I’m guessing a management consulting firm found a away to give each company in the same industry different sets of job titles to suppress job shopping and wage growth. The companies can state as a matter of fact that they are not colluding with each other. When an employee from company one applies to company two they will have a hard time understanding the ranking of senior associate engineer compared to advanced engineer. It’s all designed to keep mid career employees from being able to find similar or promotional jobs outside the company.
It sure seems like a first step towards a large scale flattening and probably a broad restructuring based on reconsidering spans of control and layers of management or hierarchy, likely resulting in what are usually called RIFs and RIMs. Probably eliminating MIP is strong factor. A lot of people who are currently "managers" or leads of a small team are going to feel demoted, if you ask me.
I thought it was funny that they tried to sell this as a Key to My Career Advancement. LOL That almost doesn't even make sense, but they kept to that line in the materials they put out so far.
I kept thinking when they said it won't affect your job, pay or MIP, they forgot to tack on the most important word... "Yet".
I first got promoted to principal engineer back in the early 90's. Then my title got demoted and then eventually I was promoted back to the next title up, principal. This happened 2 or three times, I can't keep track. Here we go again. I'm going to change my email signature to:
"Former Principal Engineer, Again".
What are the title changes? Haven’t seen any letter. Does that mean I’m not impacted?
Yes but it will need to be at a different company
Very interesting. Does this now mean I have to reapply and interview to get my old title back?66
This is absolutely a recommendation from some consulting company .... probably McKinsey with whom Honeywell seems to have an increasingly close relationship. Didn’t honeywell just hire an executive from that firm?
Changing titles is a waste of energy. If fewer titles is better then why have any title? Call me an associate.
From my experience, getting promoted is highly political. If you're "friends" with your supervisor, your much more likely to get promoted. I know of guys that golf with their bosses, have private meetings with their bosses to discuss politics and sports, and have gone to parties and bars with their bosses.
This is probably typical of all companies. If you "look" like your supervisor you're much more likely to get ahead.
They did something similar to this in the mid 2000s. I was hired in as a Principal Engineer in the mid 1990s and then everyone was demoted by one level so I became a Senior Engineer until I worked my way back up to a Principal.
November 17 we will know our new title..... followed by more changes in who we report to, and that person will be doing your performance review in December that doesn't know you or your contributions to the company. Let's keep those raises low if we have to give anything at all!
Why are they doing this (besides the logical reduction in band, pay scale, and personnel)? They are grouping everyone together make everyone feel included instead of making those in a lower band rise up and WORK! It is the next generation coming in they are catering to. "Everyone gets a trophy" at the end of the game. No one can suffer from not winning, or in this case not having the same job title/band. I know of people that have bad attitudes because they are a band lower than other people they work with and they don't think it is "fair". If you've ever been in a large corporate office that employs a lot of the next gen, you'll see ping pong tables in conference rooms, nerf basketball hoops in the halls, life size checker boards in the lobby, etc. They care more about those things than getting paid appropriately for doing a good job.
Looks like the external consultants have sold yet another company on retitling. We went through this as Wells Fargo last year and it had its desired effect of lowering salaries and bonuses with the added bonus of irritating some desirable employees enough that they fled the organization.
Good luck those at Honeywell.
- s. - External consulting firms are running companies these days at a huge cost.
Apparently honeywell has learned to roll out slowly. Seems like they are starting to use A/B testing on communications. Raise the water in the pot slowly for all us frogs
Nothing Honeywell does benefits employees in anyway!
Definitely a title demotion since Staff Engineer replaced Senior Principal Engineer years ago as a rationalization of Engineer titles across all of Honeywell. Supposedly because Staff Engineer was deemed convey high status, although at some companies and industries Staff was an entry level position. More rearranging of the deck chairs presumably by some new HR big wig to justify his/her existence. And conveniently set the stage for salary freezes if not pay cuts.
With people getting demotions does management wonder how salty it’ll make folks who actually worked hard to “earn” their title only to get pushed back down?
We are all just a block on a large excel spreadsheet
Wow. It totally does sound like they will reduce salaries since the top position will be compared to one level lower at other companies. Brutal.
We should all swamp the counseling services. I don’t know how I can recover from this depression. All my family and friends will
think I was demoted.
If you were a Staff or Principal, just wait until the next round of HR Market Analysis finds that you are now paid well above ‘market’ for your title...it’s a sneaky way to freeze pay or cut it at worst.
Only four real standard job titles/descriptions:
Apprentice - one who is working at a discount to learn the trade
Serf - one who is actually doing the work to keep the company in business
Overseer - a serf who does the ruler's bidding to keep the other serf's in line
Lord - one who controls the lives of the others with only their bonus in mind
I got the email today. Staff Engineer is now a Principal Engineer and Principal Engineer is now a Lead Engineer. I consider it a demotion and age-bias. I can only assume it means we dropped into a lower pay range and will not get a MIP.
Is there an email or such....I haven’t seen it...