Anybody else thinks that the only reason there isn't a mass exodus of people from IBM right now is the state of the economy? So many people are fed up with everything that's been going on in the past several years and have now been pushed over the edge by the last few months. I've never heard so many coworkers express their desire to leave IBM as I did in the last month or so.
I have a feeling that when market conditions improve, IBM will be in real trouble. Major brain drain incoming.
I left in 1994, and it wasn't a healthy company then. Many of the customers were bought in various forms, including thru more than a few eye-candy bimbos in marketing. Several competitors like BMC, et al, grew to be large and successful selling alternatives to cr@p IBM products like IMS, DB2. As soon as even remotely functional products like Oracle, Solaris, Sybase became available customers vanished, to wit the 60,000 layoffs in a few months in the early 00s. Don't delude yourself that it will be better ever - it never has been.
There is a reason they call legacy systems “legacy”. It’s because they work. If you have good mainframe skills, you are a scarce commodity and IBM or any other mainframe customer will seek you out. OS/400 is the same. If you haven’t switched off of Mainframe or OS/400, you most likely never will unless your ISV forces you off. AIX Is a different story in that folks who used UNIX liked to roll their own, and Linux has filled that niche. The exception is very large memory requirements (maybe 10% of all ISV workloads). IBM thought they could fill the Intel LINUX void with Power Linux, but the ISV’s and coders asked “why switch if Intel works”. With 90% of the ISV’s being satisfied with Intel, and IBM refusing to help ISV’s convert to Power Linux, Power LINUX withered on the vine. There is a reason IBM just laid off most of the LINUX and Open Power folks down in Austin. They realized Intel has won 90% of the market, and Unix/LINUX Power is just a niche for folks who need very large memory implementations, or superior bandwidth. Power is still one of the best performing chips out there, but when Intel is “good enough” and priced at commodity pricing, offering up 10 dollar an hour coders. Intel wins. It boils down to where does IBM have a monopoly that they can exploit. Mainframe, OS/400, and big memory/bandwidth Unix/Linux. AK realizes that, and is pointing the ship in that direction
IBM on your resume is not a life sentence if you can get some key buzzwords in there too. I was headhunted by Google earlier this year (it didn't work out because they would have needed me to relocate to the other coast).
However, for a lot of IBMers the most valuable skill they have is "being an IBMer". They know the organization and the processes and feel - rightly or wrongly - that they would not have value somewhere else. Of course, some of that feeling comes from the constant grinding-down of living with uncertainty. And that's why a lot of them are hunkered down, hoping to ride out each new wave of cuts, rather than putting themselves forward in the outside world.
IBM have laid off employees in GTS and have hired folks from India and the remaining employees who weren’t’ laid off as of yet are training the new India folks.
I agree - @3nrl+15P1LmQR very well said.
i was a main framer for my whole career at IBM. Over the last 10-15 years I watched as new hires came in, got the ear of a 2nd or 3rd line mgr (who wanted to become a director or vp) and sold them on the latest thing the college kids were using. Then came the mandate to move all documentation or what ever to this new platform. No tools to do it, just cut and paste and you could not even past pics or other diagrams. But we had to do it, then years later said mgrs moved on, said college kids moved on (they became a star in those mgrs eyes) and we were left with their mess. Then something else came down the pike and we had to now change again because they were going to sunset what we went to years earlier. (and again no tools to do the job)
What mgrs do not consider is the time wasted by the developers doing all this extra work instead of doing the real work of supporting and developing the products. Now I am not saying that change is not needed, but it has to be managed way better and a bit of foresight would help. As I seen written here before, IBM needs leadership and IBM has to let the true leaders they have lead and not allow the paper pushing leaders and their cronies to continually push the true leaders to the side lines.
As for a mass exit, I think you will see more "older" main framers begin to retire (if they are able). covid 19 has open the eyes of a lot of people that you only live once and you don't need the stress of always looking over your shoulder for the next RA. If I was still working there I would be looking to retire.
Very well said, I totally agree.
Mainframe skills don't imply what the posters using terms like "lazy", "hyenas", etc. think.
IBM mainframers basically invented this business, back in the day, LOL!
I've see as much or more c-ap come from the other platforms out there, to be sure.
And some of today's most ridiculous fad-du-jours have come from that world too... as the new kids come in and re-invent the wheel, time-after-time-after-time... and that then wheel catches on... and yet another computer mess is born.
If anything the industry became a bigger "sh*t show" after small systems allowed everyone and anyone to create their own computer messes and then those messes became popular. (LOL!)
@vce+15P1LmQR Not only are mainframe skills not respected at FAANG, but IBM is actually detrimental on a resume when interview at FAANG. They are more than aware of the freeloading and sh*t show taking place
there is a pipeline of IBM chip designers and execs to AMD; however, AMD is being very selective and is picking off the best available or there would be a mass exodus
There will be no mass exodus. There will be continued streamlining. AK’s Primary job was to streamline IBM when he came on board. NOTHING more Look at every action he has taken. It’s harvesting where IBM makes money (mainframe), invest where IBM sees its future (cloud, Redhat, and AI), and dump where IBM has fallen behind (Perform, commodity). He is executing this plan ruthlessly.
Mass exodus? Lol
IBM is full of lazy hyenas. Read below for details.
I hate to be so harsh but the average employee at IBM would be considered C level talent by most other tech companies. I came to IBM from another company and was shocked at how complacent and incompetent the average IBMer is. If they haven’t left yet it’s because they know they can’t succeed elsewhere.
There has been a steady exodus for years, I left in March 2018 from GTS UK. I resigned for another job after 22 years at IBM in the middle of a big RA which was up to 40% of some organisations. Since then I know of dozens of people, some senior figures that have done the same and taken their considerable experience and talent elsewhere.
I had decided a few years previous that there was no future at IBM and was looking for the right opportunity that came along in the end. I was not looking for a step up in role or salary but just a more enjoyable place and company to work hard for. It worked out well for me.
I am already looking.....Underpaid, overworked and unappreciated....Time to check out!
In some cases folks are staying because IBM mainframe skills aren't respected at say, the FAANG companies. One's resume trends to trap one.
Recruiting in the broader IT market has become a, "Have you already done skill x on software x.y.z in language-du-jour"... especially since the rise of contacting companies. Career ladders and constant improvement died in large swaths of the industry. They only want folks that have already done whatever the requistion is for... and there's no pipeline.
Began back in the run-up to Y2K... after that was over, we never got the contracting companies out of the industry.
So you can bet a fair number of the folks still at IBM, are there because their career histories don't give them a way to move to the other big-name IT companies.
The people who remain sharpen their survival stills. Learning how to figure out in advance what the new business "direction" will be. They learn how to move in whatever the next television ad campaign will be. These skills have no value on the outside. Most figure that all companies have problems which is true. And some don't want to see what working for another company would be like. So are just afraid of change.
Once people hit the September mark, I feel they hang on until December to get the 401K match. Then you see the people leaving.
This year may be a different story.
Sorry but this is wishful thinking! These purges have been going on for years with the "lucky" survivors of each RA wave, typically those who spend a disproportionate amount of their time posturing to their respective management line rather than actually working or leading at the coal face. As such, the people with the real IT acumen and drive are lost and you end up with a workforce of C-Suite Powerpoint presenters, disempowered managers and grandiosely named "architects", "senior engineers", "consultants etc. whose core skill is delegation. Eventually, the delegation pool is so diminished that core services start to break (recent IBM cloud outages anyone?!?) and client sat is destroyed. Little wonder IBM's client satisfaction is rock bottom along with the stock price. I'm sure many IBMers outwardly signal an sense of dismay and intention to leave but this is usually a ploy to encourage others to leave so that they are regarded as "critical resources". The reality is that people will look after their own interests and will cling on until the bitter end.
I don’t believe IBM cares as their strategy has changed. It’s the reason they bought Redhat. They are focused on fortune 1000 customers and retaining their mainframe/middleware monopoly. Redhat helps mightily in that strategy, so if IBM has to dump Commodity HW/SW, body shop Perform services, and anything outside of cloud/modernization/AI going forward, so be it. IBM used to be all things to all comers. They have changed their strategy, And are now focused on AK’s baby. (cloud, mainframe/middleware modernization, and AI. Everything else will be sold, spunoff, or retired
IBM blows chunks - get out now