I am in Honeywell UOP and I have yet to see any diversity. What is Honeywells stance on the issues going on. At my site I have only seen 1 POC with a leadership roll. I would be curios to hear what his opinions of UOP are.
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@4evy Thanks for the warning, HR and/or Legal. God forbid you should have to work on a lawsuit while you're so busy RIFing people.
This post and the questions sounds a lot like a lawyers trolling for Information. I would be very careful
The pay difference between myself and the 3 women that were allowed to transfer out of their positions was at a minimum of $4 on the hour. If I could reveal myself, everyone that knew me and knew my work could vouch for my credibility.
I’d be curious what the pay deferential is between POC and women vs everyone else.
In that case, it is indeed a travesty to lose a person of that caliber. I hope she is now in a place that values, develops, challenges, and compensates her appropriately. Great talent comes in every color, shape, and place of origin...so disappointing that HW embraces that in words only.
WOW! Something similar happened to me at Honeywell in Urbana.
"To the woman bypassed by 3 non-degreed white women, could there have been other factors? Were they perceived as easier to work with, or very competent and not resting on their laurels? "
ABSOLUTELY NOT! I know who this person is and believe me when I tell you that SHE was BAD A$$. Fully competent, hard working, got along with everyone and was a beacon for all those she came in contact with. It was a travesty what was done to her. She ended up leaving the job because it was simply "k–ling" her. Honeywell not lost an excellent employee, they lost "light" at the end of every tunnel of every person she came in contact with on a daily.
Sometimes it really isn't about race. To the woman bypassed by 3 non-degreed white women, could there have been other factors? Were they perceived as easier to work with, or very competent and not resting on their laurels? The person I have named first in my succession plan is the only one on my team without a degree, but without a doubt shows the ability to do the best job. She is Latina and the rest of us are white males and females.
At DP there are groups said to exist like Women's Interest Network and Honeywell Black Employee Network but the links to the groups on the intranet are deadlinks and I have yet to hear what sort of inclusion activities go on in support of those groups.
Diversity and inclusion are not interchangeable terms.
Diversity refers to the traits and characteristics that make people unique while inclusion refers to the behaviors and social norms that ensure people feel welcome.
Inclusion is the more difficult of the two to measure since it depends on the perceptions of employees.
I suspect they do diversity although it may be lacking in your opinion. The real question is do Woman POC, and LGBTQ+ members feel included? Are there voices being heard. Perhaps an open dialogue with Human Resources could help. Although I’d be careful bringing it up it can be taken the wrong way.
Diversity? Ha they don’t even try and hide the lack of diversity at lower levels. The only diversity They have is at engineering level. I’m sure that goes into the total number so the meet Requirements.
Between Rvsd and here in DesPlains there are only a couple in operations like you said I’ve only seen two POC in leadership roles. There was a woman Admin but she’s gone.
Granted, it’s been a few years. But that site did... less ‘commercial’ work. It was around in one form or another for a long time and aligned with less public types of customers. The customers weren’t the types to get lots of adult supervision, let alone any EEOC type audits. The mission was all that mattered, and they did it well (while making a mint doing important work).
In some ways, it was more like pre-female military theory. I think to them women would be a distraction to getting the work done. A tight knit team of a similar culture is easier to organize and motivate, allowing focus on the mission at hand.
Diversity is good for national culture at large, but there are solid reasons to optimize around a homogeneous group when doing certain activities. Not for the sakes of superiority, but to eliminate unnecessary risks to the mission. That group could be any social culture, but only one.
Maybe the site was best described as highly optimized solution to a problem that doesn’t posses the same national urgency it used to.? The mission isn’t seen as critical, so the site culture couldn’t hide out of view any more.
@2iib, Can you share some of the reasons why you think your site employed less than 12 women?
It's easy to point out, but less easy to lay out the probable causes on the table. List em out!
@gji, how are you getting down voted?
It was a running joke* that you couldn’t fill a Swimsuit Calendar with women from our site. Literally, there were not 12 women employed full time at our site.
*joke in the sense of pity or ‘you gotta laugh or you’re gonna cry”
Would you have a quota-based representation in leadership? Is diversity itself a virtue?
Fine questions!
First step, demote the voices that say facts don’t matter and any that put a party position before the statements “all men are created equal” and “justice for all”. If you don’t believe in those concepts, you literally don’t believe in the Constitution of the US.
From there, Americans can have constructive negotiation to work together to solve the issues before us nationally and locally. This all applies inside Hon and in .gov equally.
@1zdi
How would a university encourage more PoC to enroll in engineering programs? There is much work to be done to recruit diverse engineers in the US, but diverse engineering talent needs to broadly exist in the first place. Build a sound university pipeline of diverse engineering students, and they will come to your business in a few years.
Haha, "Show up 15 minutes before everyone else, stay 10 minutes later and get everything done you say you'll do and see how that works out after a while." After a while, it gets you RIFed and kicked to the curb! Ask any dependable performer (current or RIFed) what their rewards are. You'll get an earful.
@1zst
Many business leaders wouldn't necessarily agree that diversity as a sole ideal quality is a value in and of its own sake. You can rah-rah all you want, but every proposed company value is dead in the water if there isn't a good business case that supports it. Lazy companies say that they embrace diversity but only do so through words, not actions. I would reason that most companies who choose to actually pursue diversity beyond lip service and images on their public website do so because research from major management consulting firms indicates that it improves company financial performance and innovation.
https://www.bcg.com/Images/BCG-How-Diverse-Leadership-Teams-Boost-Innovation-Jan-2018_tcm9-207935.pdf
https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/mckinsey/business%20functions/organization/our%20insights/delivering%20through%20diversity/delivering-through-diversity_full-report.ashx
https://www.pwc.co.uk/financial-services/assets/pdf/pwc-diversity-is-the-solution.pdf
This is BS. Diversity here is very low! We are so behind any “tech” company. When I visited a PHX office it was all old white men, I was absolutely shocked. This is the least diversity I’ve seen at any company I’ve been at. When the time is right, I will go elsewhere. A big clue is looking at a company’s chief officers. They finally have 2 women now, wow!
Would you have a quota-based representation in leadership? Is diversity itself a virtue?
What system would need to be in place to assure an equality of outcome in leadership for people based on melanin, ancestry, gender, or orientation? Who gets to decide which differentiating quality gets counted as a protected group in this system? When a new differentiating factor comes along, what is the process to have these people apply to become part of a protected group in this system?
Common sense and a merit-based system seems the fairest. Show up 15 minutes before everyone else, stay 10 minutes later and get everything done you say you'll do and see how that works out after a while.
I'm a black woman who was part of an "elite" team at HW. After suffering through furlough after furlough after furlough, one by one, my team members either took the RIF or found other positions within the company. Several times I put in for a new positions within the company only to have my quests blocked, time and time again. In the meantime, as my team shrunk, the 4 of us ladies put in for new positions because in our gut we knew our team was being disbanded. 3 out of 4 us were allowed to move into new positions. All 3 of them are white, non had a degree (I do, by the way) and they are still there.
PoC earned less than 4% of engineering degrees awarded in the US in 2017. Those four in 100 are heavily recruited by better paying employers than Honeywell. Now when was the last time we hired 100 people.
Are you out recruiting? I am and sadly it is a lot easier in PR than in any US college.
@vty
After June's RIFs there are few women or POC left at UOP. I recall there was a mandatory mostly women-only meeting held at UOP a few years back in DP where many were invited to share their stories of being a woman while working at UOP. I guess HR wanted to know why so many women were bolting after the situation started to affect profits, but ultimately didn't do anything to correct the root causes of the issue besides making it mandatory to take Bias in the Workplace training on the Learning Hub. I've been told that a lot of the women who attended this meeting took the time to continue their conversations with each other after the meeting. Many came to realize that the office environment was getting progressively worse and chose to leave for better pay and benefits at companies where they are respected as value generating professional engineers instead of being treated as worse than worthless slate-fillers, therapists for their managers, lunch fetchers, trashcans for grunt work that no one else on their team was willing to do, or personal secretaries. Showing respect for women goes beyond not harassing them. Showing respect for women means not talking to them in a voice like you would talk to a dog or a baby in. Showing respect for women means not patting them on the head or shoulder when you see them about to present in an important leadership meeting. Showing respect for women means giving them a 1, 2, or 4 rating on the 9 block when they have gone above and beyond instead of a 5, because in your words "everyone gets a 5". Showing respect for women means not laughing at them and rolling your eyes when they ask for a raise after making strides in their professional development and delivering a folder with their accomplishments over the years. Showing respect for women means not being angry with them or yelling when they request a change in their compensation and benefits package. All are stories I have either heard about or witnessed and called it out. Showing respect for women means treating them like competent adults who are contributing to achieving goals. Showing respect for women means recognizing them as legitimate professionals.
Source: I worked with many of these women at UOP and I know that the way they were and currently are treated is still a problem.
@ytc
I agree with your statements, Highly placed women were likely to be in legal, finance, or other functions that did not formulate or implement strategies, or have large numbers of reports. Highly placed POC were highly likely to be Indian.
In 18 years at Honeywell, I would say the treatment of POC and women was to do as little as possible while still avoiding EEO suits. At one point I did a little survey of the various segment org charts, and it was very clear that women were not in positions of real authority and decision-making. Highly placed women were likely to be in legal, finance, or other functions that did not formulate or implement strategies, or have large numbers of reports. Highly placed POC were highly likely to be Indian.
you described hiring practices in Engineering at Clearwater to a "T".
And sadly, because of the typidcal backround of the new hires, it was impossible to find anyone who knew what 6-32 meant relative to a screw, or which way a drill spun. The hires were bright and eager, but had zero aptitude which used to be common in new engineers...I think I'd have preferred a Farmer's kid, over any new hire the last few years. At least that would be a kid who knew how things worked and could be taught to be a decent enough engineer to at least support the area he/she was assigned and not be totally lost.
One of the first things I noticed at Honeywell was there were no black employees or pregnant women! All old white men and women.
After the sad death of George Floyd, it is now a huge priority and rush rush rush to get initiatives on recruiting POC all of a sudden. Not sure what the hell their diversity initiatives were before then.
POC or women must be in short supply at UOP (where ever that is) Come to Aero, where being a male non-POC keeps you down in the trenches for life.
I’m familiar with UOP, but worked elsewhere. Before I left, we had a (1 of ~750 ppl) very Sr manager who was black. I remember joining the site and surprised to see it because it was so insanely ivory. But he was good, and that’s all that mattered to anyone. Me being a kid grown up North, he positively reset my expectations around PoC AND the corporate culture at our site.
But then Allied came...
When I left, the unofficial official policy was no new hires or interns unless they were a minority. Period, all stop, no bullsh!t, no spin, no HR defense is valid. Skill was not relevant. Quotas at the corp HR level was the driving metric. We never even saw resumes for new hires or interns that weren’t minorities (and it was obvious, they ALL had some tell like “Leader of my campus Hispanic Engineers group” that HR clearly sorted for).
We certainly saw good candidates come through and hired some. But in technical fields where minorities are already under represented, HR had to rake through -reams- of resumes to find folks of skill that met the metrics. That meant we simply didn’t get enough candidates because statistics are already stacked against technical fields when it comes to new grads and interns - without this metric we already didn’t see enough intern candidates to reliably pluck a future hire a year.
If you took offense to anything in this post, knock the chip off your shoulder and read the words again. There’s no hidden racism or “see you’re the problem and don’t know it” here. This is a series of facts backed by the math.
You can get pissy at this though - Allied and the leadership since are not necessarily racist - they will screw everyone and every moral and ethical norm equally to feed their own grotesque power trips and bonuses. Rabid piranhas on crack... glad I’m gone.