Thread regarding Cisco Systems Inc. layoffs

It's election time! Call ir write to your state AG and complain about age discrimination. Ask them what would it take for them to investigate. Get your family and friends to do the same. Call your two senators office and make noise.

This is definitely sending the list of people on LR back to Legal and HR. They are now going to have to adjust the list to bring the average age of layoffs down to the low 30s. They don't want to risk the same. They have already targeted older workers with the ER. Yes, that would be considered targeted in a civil case. The older workers are not probably more secure than ever. Managers are not going to be happy having to change the list of people. They are probably going to be told to list the people on their team by age, be forced to take two from the 20-29 age group, two from 30-39, and one from the 40+ age group (this assumes 20 people under a manager). It is good that the Fed gov't is looking at this as a matter of fact. It now changes the face of layoffs by big corporations.

To counter this, Cisco may sweeten the pot for ERs to get more to volunteer. Those that don't take it are probably going to be safe. There are not tech companies that want this to come out. If they are investigated, the dirty laundry will public. Once it is, the money door opens.

would you do that? If you could I don't know why you don't. It appears my post was not understood as I meant to it be, so I will explain it in a little more detail. (Unless your are one who simply wants to jump on a different thought).

I made the statement, sort of, tongue in cheek, as the expression goes. While I'd definitely take a civil servant job for 10 yrs, I don't think I'm qualified for any at a level that would reasonably provide adequate income. At this point in my career/life, I'd have to be an office/department manager or higher, or have a technical skill in the environmental area or something like that. I couldn't survive on a gs-4 or gs-6 salary, but I don't have the experience managing a high 6 or 7 figure budget to justify a gs-10 or gs-12 salary. There may be a job out there, but I don't have the inclination to spend months or years searching for that opportunity to come along and hope that I will be selected. Government/civil jobs have to give current/previous GS/CS workers preference based on the number of years of service over people with no prior GS/CS service.

What you don't understand is that there are a lot of mid 50's that would love to take an easier job but they need the health insurance. I am that age and we talk about this. We don't broadcast it (obviously). I have numerous colleagues that claim the certs are getting tougher because of their eyesight (mine too). Also, working all day configuring is much harder simply because of the eyesight issues.

Oh, I most certainly understand because I am one of those mid 50's workers who needs health insurance. I didn't retire from the military, so my spouse and I don't have retirement medical coverage. And to eye sight, these higher and higher resolution laptops are k–ling me. I have to work off a monitor just to read text.

There are a lot of people already retired in their mid 50's with full pension and medical. They did a government job all their lives. (Don't say they worked hard or were customer focused or you will lose what little creditability you have remaining). If you don't see this, that is because of your age. It is coming.

I will say that there are a few hard working GS/CS workers, but they are the exception and not the rule. BUT I've never met a GS/CS worker to didn't take as much advantage of the system as they could. When in service, even our hardest working GS workers punched a clock. Normal duty hours were 0730 - 1630, but GS workers could come in plus or minus 60 min, so they could come in as early as 0630 or as late as 0830. Then they took their lunch hour 4 hrs after they came in, and then left 4 hrs after that. The unspoken rule was that at least one critical person always came in at 0630 and one came in at 0830 meaning that we could only schedule meetings between 0900 - 1030 and 1300 - 1500 because you couldn't make them attend a meeting first thing, couldn't schedule during the lunch interval where someone might be at lunch and they needed 30 min to return any phone calls that may have come in during lunch, and you couldn't make anyone stay late if they came in at 0630 and were due to leave at 1530. And you had to give them 30 min at the end of the day to finish up any tasks, clean their desks, etc. before leaving. Oh, yes, I know how little work CS/GS workers can get away with.

My point was to have those people take contract work, with medical for the last few years of their careers, scale down (bug time) the bureaucrats and move on. These govt jobs are easy. Also , those govt jobs are not 'cash for life'). The young govt workers can find jobs, some will require physical labor.

Contract work with medical for the last few years is not, IMHO, the answer. Consulting firms have the WORST plans, with stupid expensive premiums and high deductibles. The only good thing about contract jobs' medical plans is that they have to cover you and your spouse with no medical history or screening. My medical, per week, is more than your monthly premium. And I don't make so much extra as a contractor to offset that higher expense.

You will experience this in the future. I bet a lot of mid 50's are experiencing this now.

No arguments there. It's harder and harder to find a new role the older I get. I just want to be able to work the last 10 - 12 years of my career at one place and provide a full day's work for a day's pay. Instead, every time I'm LR'd, I have to take some c-appy job at less pay just to get an income going again to protect my retirement savings while I look for a good job at my usual pay. Then a few years later, after I've mentored the EIC teammates, I get LR'd again and repeat the cycle. It's getting f—ing old.

Plug one loopholes, the lawyers will find another one. Only other viable option is to unionize.

"Sure enough, 3-weeks later a massive layoff of 35% of our organization and all 200 were in it to lower the age from the 50s down to the low 40s."

That's not a "just business" kind of thing. That is outright evil.

I'll do 10 yrs of civil service right now to combine with my 10 yrs of military service and claim a 20-year retirement package with full benefits for myself until I die and for my wife until she dies as a spousal benefit

would you do that? If you could I don't know why you don't. It appears my post was not understood as I meant to it be, so I will explain it in a little more detail. (Unless your are one who simply wants to jump on a different thought).

Also, I worked construction until I was 25. Loved it but knew I couldn't do it forever. I would have liked to have looked at 'the older' guys to see how they climbed a ladder easier but there wasn't any of them to watch. Went to university at 25 and graduated in 3 years. Comp Sci degree.

What you don't understand is that there are a lot of mid 50's that would love to take an easier job but they need the health insurance. I am that age and we talk about this. We don't broadcast it (obviously). I have numerous colleagues that claim the certs are getting tougher because of their eyesight (mine too). Also, working all day configuring is much harder simply because of the eyesight issues.

That is both physical and office type of work that can be effected by age.

There are a lot of people already retired in their mid 50's with full pension and medical. They did a government job all their lives. (Don't say they worked hard or were customer focused or you will lose what little creditability you have remaining). If you don't see this, that is because of your age. It is coming.

My point was to have those people take contract work, with medical for the last few years of their careers, scale down (bug time) the bureaucrats and move on. These govt jobs are easy. Also , those govt jobs are not 'cash for life'). The young govt workers can find jobs, some will require physical labor.

You will experience this in the future. I bet a lot of mid 50's are experiencing this now.

If the Feds need more information to help their case, I know our group hired 200 young 20-somethings to full time work. They were mixed across 4 or 5 projects. The one young lady was so happy to be starting and being hired as an Senior Project Manager. I asked her what her project was and she told me. Bewildered, I asked what division she worked for and it was my division. The project didn't exist, there was no budget for it, there were no Directors or management assigned to it.

A few days later I told her what was going to happen because I knew the project was bogus. She disagreed with me. I explained that her role is usually filled by someone with at least 10-years of large scale project management with a salary over $100k. She couldn't believe it because she was offered $36k, has no project management experience (that alone tells you something). Sure enough, 3-weeks later a massive layoff of 35% of our organization and all 200 were in it to lower the age from the 50s down to the low 40s.

Cisco follows IBM

There are a lot of jobs that people are not as effective at as when they are younger. Such as construction workers.

There's the old saying of "Work smarter, not harder." Too many young guys on a construction job work harder than necessary because they haven't learned how to pace themselves or the efficient way of doing some tasks. My Dad worked a trade job for most of his career and when I needed to work on a construction site for a summer job, the best advice he gave me was to watch the old guys and see how they did tasks rather than jumping in and depending on youthful eagerness and strength. I was among the few summer workers who wasn't completely exhausted at the end of the day. And I had less hazing early on because I showed the experienced guys I wanted to learn from them rather than show them up. No trips to find the aluminium magnet or the stud stretcher for me.

But, hell yah, if you want to kick all the younger people out of government jobs so my tired, old a– can get a job, I'll do 10 yrs of civil service right now to combine with my 10 yrs of military service and claim a 20-year retirement package with full benefits for myself until I die and for my wife until she dies as a spousal benefit.

cisco calls it ER 😆

Comparing discoveries made before 1905 with after 1985, the average age at which physicists made their discoveries rose from 37 to 50. Chemists' average age rose from 36 to 46 and that of medical scientists from 38 to 45. Before 1905, 20% of prizewinning work was done before age 30, but by 2000, this fell to almost zero. The findings are published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Age is not an issue.

Comparing discoveries made before 1905 with after 1985, the average age at which physicists made their discoveries rose from 37 to 50. Chemists' average age rose from 36 to 46 and that of medical scientists from 38 to 45. Before 1905, 20% of prizewinning work was done before age 30, but by 2000, this fell to almost zero. The findings are published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

There are a lot of jobs that people are not as effective at as when they are younger. Such as construction workers. They should reserve the easy government jobs for these 50+ year old's. They will get medical coverage and a small wage until medicare. They will also be happy. These jobs are beyond simple. That would be a great transition into retirement and free us from the government unions.

Policies set up by the companies are responsible for this situation. Who will be held responsible at IBM now ? Who did they consult to implement those policies ? Any other company doing the same thing ?

Outsourcing, greed, cost cuts, selling intellectual Property, and policies implemented by the upper management are all responsible for this situation.
Get together and sue them.

Analysis shows it was primarily older workers (85.85%) in the total potential pool of those considered for layoff,” Keenan added. “Evidence uncovered older employees who were laid off and told that their skills were out of date, only to be brought back as contract workers, at a lower rate of pay with fewer benefits. EEOC received corroborating testimony from dozens of witnesses nationwide supporting a discriminatory animus based on age.”

This is not discrimination against older workers. This is capitalism.

And it's one of the things that needs to change about capitalism. Another thing is planned obsolescence.

Why do refrigerators and freezers barely last through their warranty periods, if that long? Used to, you could buy one that lasted 10, 15 or 20 yrs for a fraction of the cost. Now they jack up the prices to cover one or two repairs during the warranty period knowing that you'll have to buy a new one within a year or two of it expiring.

When no one will hire older workers who can still do the job because they're old, they won't have retirement savings like our grandparents had who pumped a lot of $'s into the economy as they traveled and bought luxury items they had put off while raising kids. Now the old folks will be on welfare, especially if (when) Social Security fails.

My experience is worth something and, while I'm not saying I should make twice as much as someone with half my experience, I should certainly make more because I can solve problems in half the time. Usually because I've run across the issue before and know what to do without having to search Google for someone else who's run across it and posted an answer.

How would this younger generation get stuff done without stackoverflow and people with experience answering all the questions?

This is not discrimination against older workers. This is capitalism. If you earn too much for what you produce, it does not make sense to keep you around. BTW, I am 56, or almost 60 as my daughter says.

Yay! Let's push for Cisco to be investigated too.

Interesting. I wonder what IBM's penalties will be, and whether similar investigations will be made into other tech companies