the layoff has been announced at August 12. And it will be until October 7 to know the list of the impacted staffs.
I understand the ELT is trying to provide a better plan for the special circumstance as well as so called conscious culture. But the stressful period seems too long for all the employees in the company.
What logic is used in cisco LR, how do they choose whom to LR from engineer to director level. is it just based on IPF if so how many years
What was the LR package from earlier this year before the extension? I would expect the same for the involuntary and then throw on 5 weeks for the voluntary?
I wouldn't expect the same, but from what I heard, the Feb '20 LR was the same as the last several years. 2 months pay (30 days as an employee to look for internal roles, 30 days pay in lieu of notice) plus 3 months severance and 4 months COBRA benefits (if you signed the agreement not to sue).
I'd expect the voluntary to match the previous LR's and the involuntary to be even less. But if Cisco wants to encourage enough to take the voluntary route to prevent having to do a large percentage of involuntary impacts, they need to be more transparent on what the packages are when they inform everyone who is at risk on Oct 7th so they can make an informed decision.
What was the LR package from earlier this year before the extension? I would expect the same for the involuntary and then throw on 5 weeks for the voluntary?
Correct ELT is staying quiet about it. And they are still quiet on the number to be impacted. They are saying that the US and most of APJC will be notified on the 7th Oct, with the rest of the world coming later (to end of Oct).
Any idea how big the package will be for voluntary folks vs involuntary? If it's just an extra month+ to make up for the difference in time between the two, don't see the point. I'd want more on top...
That's just it, no one but the ELT knows what the packages look like until they start telling the impacted people. Gone are the days of transparency where the package details are published ahead of time for all to see.
Given that the ER package of '11 was better than the LR (or WFR) package was and was scaled down by 25% on pay and greater than 50% on COBRA benefits, I'd expect this "optional/voluntary" LR to be 25% smaller than the original Feb '20 LR package before it was extended due to the pandemic. The involuntary package will have to be even smaller or future voluntary LR's won't work, but that means that the involuntary LR package will be close to the bare 60 days pay required by CA law.
It's starting to get to the point where the packages aren't worth hanging around for as many people seem to say they want to do.
... Got to the magic age of 58, and was LR'd. ...
Dude, get over yourself. 58 is NOT the magic age. I was notified I was being LR'd four days before my 49th birthday with my employment ending 26 days after my birthday. I was also LR'd just before my 40th birthday, but that was more of the new manager (less than a year on the team) didn't like me and immediately put me on a PIP, so LR'ing me was easier than making up excuses to terminate me under the PIP process and had nothing to do with my age other than it helped offset (a little) any older employees being LR'd.
Yes, CSCO will never take care of you. Corporations don't do that anymore, even ones as small as under 1,000 employees. Anyone working 80 hours a week IS stupid. Or very inefficient. Depending on the tasks and deadlines, I can work 45-50 hrs one or two weeks, but when I need to, I can work a 32 hr week to deal with personal/family matters, but on average I usually work 40-45 hrs each week. Although dealing w/ email and attending hours of meetings isn't really work. It's the stuff that gets in the way of getting work done.
I worked at Sh–sco for over 14 years. Got to the magic age of 58, and was LR'd. Two years later I sold all of my ESPP at 48.75. Now it's at 40 and change. Take what you can and get a new life. Sh–co will never take care of you. You can work 80 hours a week and they'll laugh at you for being so stupid! My managers were id–tS!, they only cared about themselves and not one person on our team was ever promoted or recommended for a management position. Chambers spouted out BS propaganda while reeling in the big bucks, now he's a billionaire. Chucky is following the same model. There is no leadership on the cisco train.
Any idea how big the package will be for voluntary folks vs involuntary? If it's just an extra month+ to make up for the difference in time between the two, don't see the point. I'd want more on top...
Is the second phase for different teams or geographies? Why wouldn't they just take care of everything in October and get it over with?
While some countries with more strict labor protection laws will lag behind, the second phase is for the U.S. Phase 1 is where everyone whose job is "at risk" will be notified and offered 3 options. 1) Chose to take the optional (voluntary) transition package and leave in Nov, 2) take a leave of absence and hope your job is still available at the end, or 3) stay in place and look for other internal roles/do nothing. Phase 2 will be where all the people who were really at risk, and people in different categories necessary to offset any imbalances in the grouping of those targeted, will be involuntarily terminated with a smaller package than the optional transition package offered in Oct.
They use a phased approach to either keep the numbers under the threshold for reporting, or because America has an attention span of about 10 seconds. Layoff in October a big deal, layoff again in December hardly noticed. It is just a way of spreading the LR numbers out, prolonging the agony, and saving themselves money in the long run. Conscious culture is smoke & veils, don’t ever believe that Cisco has your best interest in mind, everything is about pleasing the analysts, and making more money.
3 weeks to go. How many meetings have I had with people that are saying "let's see who is left after the culling to realign my alliances"
Is the second phase for different teams or geographies? Why wouldn't they just take care of everything in October and get it over with?
Cisco has taken different approaches w/ the LR cycle over the years: advanced notice, with an agonizing and demoralizing wait, or SURPRISE (!) your job has been eliminated w/o notice. Neither approach is fun. Be forewarned there will be a second phase LR in early December.
"I understand the ELT is trying to provide a better plan for the special circumstance as well as so called conscious culture."
Nope! They do not care for any of that whatsoever. They just announce the next annual "Cisco hunger games" and watch as everyone works their butt off and fight for survival. It is totally intentional.
This has been attributed to Jack Welch as the method to extract maximum possible performance from employees. But I recall that nazi kapo had the same methods to extract maximum work from the workforce of their konzentrazionlager - they shot any straggler while the prisoners were walked to/from work - and then during every morning roll call they shot some more "slow workers" so the rest would work themselves to death trying to avoid that fate. Nothing new...
But the stressful period seems too long for all the employees in the company.
The first big LR that impacted thousands that I recall was back in '11. They announced the early retirement and the workforce reduction (WFR) during the Q3 earnings call and said that, depending on the numbers who elected to take the ER, they would notify the impacted workers Tue - Thurs the first week of Aug. We basically had 3 months to worry, but there was no "optional" choice like this year. You were either notified and told to leave the building or you weren't.
Since then, they've moved from advance notice to no notice like they did in '16 when they LR's thousands more. The Earnings call was on a Monday, and people were notified as early as the next morning. I'd rather have 3 months warning to cut back on non-necessity spending and start putting out feelers for new possibilities than to suddenly have to wonder if I can beat out hundreds of people who do the same work I do for the 10's of jobs currently available locally.
@breadwinner mom with small children, I'd be scared too. I've been in your shoes. I've managed to come out ok, but I've known others that didn't so do what you can NOW to get ready.
There are lots of IT jobs out there, even now. ... you won't have too much of a tough time finding employment.
Unless you're over 50. I've done a lot of contracting, and usually don't fit in and don't get renewed/extended or fit in and get converted to an employee where I get LR'd 2-3 years later. As such, I've got a lot of experience with interviewing and "can articulate and show your knowledge by examples of your work", but I'll still have to interview for 3-5 jobs before I land one.
As the sole breadwinner in my household, it's dependent upon me to land the next role quickly regardless of how good/bad the employer is or how good the job fit is so that I don't have to dip into our retirement savings. And as a contractor, you can be let go with no notice or severance so finding the next role quickly is critical. Usually I take whatever job I can and then look for a better fit/job while working the first available so my resume is a repeating cycle of long contracts followed by being an employee at the client followed by one or two very short contracts and then a repeat cycle.
I forget who said during one of the Cisco Check-Ins when asked what Cisco was doing for the contractors impacted and the official response was that the consultants companies took care of the contractors by moving them to other clients, so they were "fine". What a load of BS. Has that person ever worked as a consultant? Sure, consultant firms _want_ to place their consultants at other clients, but if they don't have immediate openings, the contractor is terminated especially if Cisco didn't give the consulting agency 2-4 weeks notice to look for other opening for that contractor. The days of a consultant company putting employees "on the bench" at reduced pay instead of terminating the employee, usually an hourly worker.
I've never worked back-to-back jobs with a consulting agency at different clients. I've always had to switch agencies because I've found the next opportunity, not my current agency. Once they let me go, they have no costs, so why wouldn't they look for the best candidate instead of limiting themselves to me? I'm sure they will continue to try to market me to their clients because I'm a known quantity compared to an entirely new candidate they have no prior experience with, but they're after the bottom line and getting their candidate in place instead of letting another consultant agency get their candidate in.
How much cutting can they do ? How many jobs can they toss to new grads with no experience? How many jobs can they send overseas before there's a massive cut in quality (If not already).
There needs to be growth, reinvestment. They lost their chance at that ...
Yes they have stretched it way too long. I am taking the Select package but everyone is frozen waiting to see what happens, who leaves, and how deep the LR may or may not be. It’s stupid to cause this much uncertanty with our people along with the lack of focus on innovation stable products, software.
Cisco needs a technology leader and visionary. Chuck wants to be Mr Nice guy. We need Mr let’s kick a– and get it done.
There are lots of IT jobs out there, even now. They might not be as high paying as Cisco. If you truly have a good demonstrated technical general background and can articulate and show your knowledge by examples of your work; you won't have too much of a tough time finding employment.
Left Cisco several years ago. Have concern for those I liked when working there, but there are fewer and fewer as people leave/retire.
It's just an Nortel/IBM now. NO innovation, and the plan to be operationally efficient has been maximized. Big balance sheet has been reduced with debt and shareholder buy backs. Cisco couldn't make a big move if they found one, only incremental acquisitions. More likely this company breaks itself up than recovers.
Sympathy for those going through it, but it's time to get yourself out of there.
Cisco has been conducting massive layoffs annually. Why are people surprised by this?
Honestly I'm scared. Some people will be able to find new jobs easily, but I don't think I'll be one of them. //breadwinner mom with small children
It will be continuously happening and thus disruptive . A managed decline
The real LR is in December.
only 2 months. i have been chilling out, not doing anything till i find out whether i will be given the boot or not. if i get the heavy boot, then i would have collected 2 months pay for doing zero work. almost everyone on my entire team is doing the same.