Thread regarding Ford layoffs

It is important to ensure you truly have marketable skills.
Right management is good at reviewing your resume and moral support—but that is about it.

In 2008 eight of our IT team took voluntary packages at age 55. Each told us they were going to immediately get another job. They had been convinced by the VIP meetings they could easily find another job. Seven of the eight were never able to find another IT job. One found another IT job but quit after a month because their new employer actually expected employees to work hard and be oncall.
The reason the seven were never able to find a job was they had spent 30 years just following Ford processes and never learning any new skill. They barely worked while at Ford.

The three SRD on IT team in 2019 all had better jobs within 3 weeks. The difference was those three were the go getters who always learned new skills and sought to continually learn and better themselves.

Eddie Lambert, Sears CEO, is famous for hating pensions. He publicly has stated several times it is Sears "number 1" problem. Ford also wants fewer pensions and prefers you take the lump sum.

Chicago Tribune on PBGC making pensions secure:

A federal agency is preparing to take responsibility for Sears' pension plans, which cover more than 90,000 people. ... “The pensions are secure through Sears or through the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.,” he said. “The big impact if Sears does liquidate is that retirees will lose life insurance.”Jan 18, 2019

Agreed, the 50% number seems unlikely if Kmart was a single-employer pension plan like Ford. If Kmart were part of a multiemployer pension plans then a 50% PBGC haircut is possible.

How In the world can your Kmart pension be less than half its former value with the PBGC? This can only be possible if your original Kmart pension was over $120k.

@3yht+1738RAnd is correct - what happens to most of us if we survive the upcoming involuntaries coming next year? For many of us, our atitudes will only continue to get worse, not better. For myself, with a wife who was package out (involuntarily) in 2019 and lost her start up business to COVID this year and a kid with still 6 years to go before college, I would be super motivated...but alas, I am not. I lost my mojo in 2019, and not matter how hard I try, I can't get it back.

Actually think I lost it in 2018, when I was told my area in IT was being disbanded during to PDO roll out, was told I wouldbe leaving to another team, was denied having the chance to interview with other teams that I wanted to join to instead end up being told to join a team I did not want to join nor did they want me. Survived the 2019 SRD only to be told this year project budget going to be cut, go find yourself a new team (yet the project had money to add other new people), did so, then when I was promised by my new team in FSM that I woulkd have all this new exciting work , was promptly reorg'ed into a brand new organization and becuase of that have been doing next to nothing whiel they figure out what they want to become.

Like this poster has said, I have seen enough that I am just done - yet feel trapped because of COVID. I did get an invitiation to the VIP party; yet when I listened to ther Right Management presentation yesterday they were taling about how great it is out there with working and designing your own 'career' after "retirement" (hint- they are taling about the exploding gig economy and held up a shining example of a recent retireeing they were helping to negoittae a 30 day contract) then causally dropped that most people forecast 10% unemployment through 2021. Really motivating us to take that VIP package!

If I had 30 years in and my situation was different (i. e wife was still working), I would be all over this package. However, it is not, so I will be sticking around for as long as I can. However, like a couple of other people have said, I will not go queitly....no, I am doing just enough to keep management off my back, taking all the training and re-skilling I can find (both free internally and paid externally), updating my reseume and interview sillks, and preparing for the worst. If I survive the 2021 bloodletting, just that much more money I can have in the bank.....but since I am retirement elgible, I am planning to leave regardless by end of 2021 or middle of 2022. If I do get tapped on the shoulder next year, so be it....but either way, I am taking lump sum pension, as I have less than 50% confidence Ford will survive another 10 years on their own, much less 5 years. I also don;t trust either Ford of the new comonay will fully honer to Ford GRP pension during a merger......Ford could easlier declare bankruptcy to clean uo their books, then merge with another company "clean'. I worked for Kmart prior to Ford, and years later I had ther opportunity to get a lump sume for the pension I had from Kmart....I regret not doing that, because now the Pension Gaurantee org owns it and it is less than half it's former value. If you decide to stay at Ford and survive the next two rounds of SRD and Ford does soemthing simlair, take the money and run, 'cuase it is usally the last warnignyou will get befoe the sh– hits the fan.

@2mgk+1738RAnd

One of the best posts on the topic. I would also like to add that being cut in many cases has little to do with contributions, performance, and more importantly value to Ford but more about being too old, not part of the in crowd, not being a favorite, not being in the right place at the right time, not giving in to the toxicity of the workforce/culture, etc. Most all of it now will be things we can't control, and sometimes it has to be enough that we know.

One other point I would like to make is the questions around what happens if we survive another cut. What's our well being after every annual SRD as we slowly watch the toxic culture become more toxic, hoping for a realignment to another skill team or a new supervisor/manager? I got news for you, folks- not happening. Future SRD's will continue to make less and less sense, though I'm not sure we can top '19. At some point the money and benefits just aren't worth it, and I'm personally there myself.

Another poster made a good point about sharpening your skills. I agree with not trying to gain admission to the in crowd at this point or endlessly putting your hand up for extra work. There is a reason for not volunteering for things others aren't as well. Put the minimum time in (while still at least trying to make your case) and spend the time sharpening your other skills for life after Ford, whatever that may be. I think that's sage advise and what I'm doing so as not to get caught flat footed. Good night and good luck!

All the people I know who were offered VIP are not taking it....involuntary lay-offs here we come...,

A merger won’t necessarily damage your retirement. I was around when Mazda merged with Ford and most didn’t lose anything. If I remember correctly some felt they lost money in the transfer but those who kept documentation showing what they had at transfer were able to resolve it. I retired (young) from another company before joining Ford and years later they valued my pension at a quarter of what was stated when I left. I was able to resolve it because I could provide documentation that I captured when I left. If you have a pension and leave Ford or Ford merges with another company make sure to keep documentation because it’s difficult to argue with facts. Never assume the company, Ford or otherwise, will have your best interests in mind.

Funny how everyone loves their Reaganomics and purist capitalism until it screws them personally. . .

• Right Managements resume service is good - but for those who dont have knowledge/never kept track of the latest resume trends etc. I feel 50+ people need it more than the 30+ people.
• They helped me think thru all the things I worked on in the 25+ years (yes, I needed that). I must say I was a little ashamed of myself when I found I had worked 25+ years at Ford and I did NOT have a lot to show for that. I guess thats what happens to people who spend a ton of years at Ford. SMH. My fault.
• One of the most important things I learned from right management — The counselor asked us " Why do employers post jobs online?. Answer - "Because they HAVE too". More often then not they already have a candidate in mind, through connections etc.

It’s rough being 30 plus years of service and hanging in there with a target on you back with no Hope for the future but a steady check. Is that sense of hopelessness worth it? Ford Motor is in a state of decline and will not reverse. Best case for Ford is a merger, and with that - things will really get tough with threat to your pension. Take the money and run - no brighter days ahead. You survived countless cuts - you have nothing to prove to anybody but yourselves. Get away from that toxic environment. You can always make more money, but you can’t buy you time back.

OP I do not think you are entirely correct. In 2018 the offer was 3 months and very few takers and was then bumped to nine months. original 3-month takers still got the nine months but it was nine months total. They were only select marketing and sales positions that got 18 month offers. PD was 9 months. If you are waiting for offers to get better either this year or next you will be sadly mistaken.

@1bbb+1738RAnd You are not alone. Same story. Introspection at first made me doubt myself. But it wasn’t about performance. It was about reducing pension obligations and healthcare obligations.
I have been asked twice to come back as a contractor, to which I said No Thank You. So clearly they need my skill set.

Another consideration if you are eligible to retire and on the fence. I was on the fence about the 2018 PRP and decided to wait another year because that extra year would have given me a significant bump in pension. It never occurred to me that I would get tapped for involuntary separation because my PRs and productivity were always excellent plus I was cooperative and never complained. Imagine my surprise when I was SRD’d. No matter how successful you think you have been, ending your career by getting tapped on the shoulder is not the way to go out. Even though I had worked for people that I know would have told me if I had performance issues it made me question my track record. I was told it had nothing to do with performance but I still felt that if I had been valued I would not have been walked out. Plus, if I had taken PRP I would have received a larger lump sum and been able to keep my benefits and management lease vehicle for much longer.

If you’re on the fence, will actually retire, and are eligible for social security think about the financial and emotional benefits of retiring on your own terms.

To @1wyi+1738RAnd

I'm the orginal poster of this thread, and you are correct - all this latest VIP offer did for retirement eligibale people is make them sit on the fence even more. As others have pointed out, this offer only makes sense to take if you were going to retire at end of 2020 or sometime in first quarter 2021. You are also correct in that this effort will likley be under-subscribed....I'd be shocked if they get close or over the 1400 target.

A simialr effort in 2018 (the PRP offer) was over susbscribed, and actual did hit some areas pretty hard in terms knowledge walking out the door. Maybe they will do what they did in 2018 and up the offer to get more takers (the original 2018 PRP offer was only 9 months, they changed it to 18 and the handraisers could not raise their hands fast enough!)...we can only hope?!

To you point about raising your hand for involuntaries, that does not work, either....many people on this site said in 2019 they actually did raise their hand to leave in 2019, but were denied. So if anyone is hope for that, think again...it never seems to make any sense who stays and who goes during these purges.

That sums up a microcosm of the back and forths between taking it or not. Accordingly, many retirement eligible employees I talk to site every reason from soups to nuts in not hand raising. We're right back to the same place with the same problem with the fence sitters, and you sum it up perfectly with working 6-9 more mos and getting tapped with probably a better package anyway. The only two glimmers of hope are that those retirement eligible won't want to return 'to the new normal' and the uncertainty with Ford's future if they continue to work while gambling that another package comes around after next year +.

I think this whole VIP thing is a sham to get to involuntary cuts- my guess is we'll be way off from the 1400 number. If they were serious about it from the start, they would have offered it to every retirement eligible employee in NA but at least some (and maybe many) were excluded, depending on skill team participation. There is a lot in it for Ford. They get to get rid of who they want and it looks s-xier to Wall Street early in Farley's term. It's also more easily explainable to the outside world in these times. But it's also a gamble to the fence sitters if there even are involuntaries, if they affect their skill team and area, etc. I think a lot of people believe they'll just put their hand up if and when involuntaries come about but that may or may not work. I'm not even retirement eligible and am thinking about doing this, knowing that Ford could flip script on me by saying no and in turn constructively set me up to voluntarily resign- certainly not out of the realm of the unconscionable.

I used Right Management @30 years ago and it was a big waste of time. They offered counseling that amounted to "You are a good person, it wasnt your fault that you got laid off, you are like an eagle that just needs to spread your wings and fly". Blah blah blah. They also provided generic business cards, an empty office and resume printing services.

Ford uses Corporate Bond Weighted Average Interest Rate to recaculate lump sum payouts. From what I can tell it hass not changed much from last year. Feds bought bonds in April/May like crazed crack heads and kinda threw a wrench in the gear box.

To poster @cfe+1738RAnd

I totally understand and get it - if you were already really planning to retire anyway this year or sometime in 2021 AND not planning to re-enter the workforce, then it makes 100% sense to take the VIP package this year. The 9 months extra pay will make the extra year of free time seem like a bonus.

In my case, even though I am eligible for retirement, I am too young and had no plans to retire either this year or in 2021. Was planning it for 2027 or 2028 when I would have 28 years in and my daughter would be out of high school. In my case, makes no sense to vouluntarily leave....

I’d cross “assistance from Right Management” from the list of pros. You can get the same quality of assistance from linked in, YouTube and google searches.

I am eligible to retire (33 years) and I’m considering The VIP and taking the lump sum. With the IRS segment rates as low as they are, the lump sum amount is probably as high as it will ever be. I was planning to retire at the end of 2021 anyway, so it makes sense to take advantage of the nine month severance and to lock in the higher lump Doem not planning to re-enter the workforce so the Right Management plan doesn’t come into play for me. It would me nice to leave on my own accord rather than get tapped on the shoulder one day and told to leave.

Sound logic assuming the involuntary separation agreements are not downgraded before next involuntary. This has been known to happen.

Only makes sense if you were already planning to retire in December before the VIP was offered. Otherwise stay and if you get laid off...that’s a better deal....