It is common knowledge that older folks were NSI’d despite not truly being low performers. It is also common knowledge that older folks often see a year over year drop in ranking despite still performing well, under the guise of ‘you’re expected to know and do more since you have been around so long’. I often felt that was age discrimination but was done in such a way that they can claim it is performance based when they let you go.
Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? And please don’t be a jerk and claim that old-timers just sit around collecting a pay check for doing nothing.....I know lots of very valuable old-timers.
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Sorry that you can't live the above average lifestyle that you wanted. I bet that your lifestyle is multiples better than the millenials that you think are hating on you.
@3yyv+17dbyOf4, incorrect. Different locations and departments have different titles for their admins, including, “Secretary.” Btw, your punctuation is atrocious.
For those of you not up-to-date on the proper term.. it’s Administrative Assistants (AA’s) not Secretary. You must be from the Mad Men era! So, let’s set the record straight! Not all but, a very good AA is everyone’s go to person, likely a punching bag and/or best confidant for their SOB boss that thinks highly of him/herself, knows HR guidelines probably better than any of those new snobby HR advisors, Supervisors and most Managers. They listen to your whiny a** when you complain about your nanny being late or how you can’t keep up with your vacation hours, or your poor planning leaves you without vacation hours and you want to visit mommy at Christmas OR....you don’t want to take your PPTO hours in consecutive days. You need “special meals” so the catering order takes twice as much time. Give us a freakin break!! Just because an AA reports to a President or VP doesn’t mean she’s a good Admin, it’s that she sold her soul to the devil. AA’s if compensated well deserve every damn penny and likely more!! We are professionals NOT your Mother!!!
Wow, the younger generations sure are a$$holes if they truly feel this way about 55+. Where is your compassion and empathy? You sure weren’t raised very well and you’ll get what’s coming to you jacka$$.
I’m from Gen X and we were raised to show respect and act with class. Grow up and start acting like an adult you selfish twit
@1vax+17dbyOf4 - I was mainly referring to the engineers. There will always be special cases, but the vast majority of forced early retirements have millions.
No, I retired a multi-millionaire because I worked may a.. off and saved every penny I could. So petty and jealous.
Cry me a river. You sound like the ja's you are are criticizing. I bet you got PIP'D you whiney me me me employee.
The folks that are posting comments about not having sympathy for the 55+ crowd because they don't really need the boats, lake house, etc. are the exact kind of ja's that have ruined EM with their selfish, arrogant and ME ME ME whining. So if I get cancer at age 50, it's not so bad because I took up oxygen for 50 years instead of leaving more for you and your ME ME ME focus? Believe me, anyone that stuck it out to age 55 with this company suffered infinitely more hardship than you can imagine. Many of us moved every 18 months to a new field office out in the sticks, worked single status overseas, etc., all with no real choice because that was how it was done in the 80's and 90's. Don't believe it was a huge sacrifice? Get in line for the next 15-20 years and see how it feels. You are lucky because skills are much more portable in this industry than 15 or 20 years back. We earned every penny, went through several of these layoff and hiring cycles, and still got screwed countless times before retiring. Don't belittle what others have done and accomplished, regardless of their age or place in life. You don't know us. We left this company with a legacy of well managed high quality assets that have largely been p-ss-d away by current management, many of them middle aged pups that have never even stepped on a drilling rig, worked on a pump jack, or touched a valve in their lives. You think Qatar, N—ria, Malaysia and other garden spots developed themselves? S— it up buttercup! Let's see how you feel about your self worth and contributions at retirement.
Why is a secretary making that kind of salary??? Definety overpaid if you ask me
@1svd+17dbyOf4, I’m 55+ and a secretary. Far from “millions” in my pension and definitely don’t own a lake house, nice car, fancy house. I’d rather be 40 out looking for a job than 55+. Nobody’s going to hire me at my age, and IF they do, I’ll be lucky to make $40,000 a year. I am so scre**d. Worth more de-d than alive at this point.
I share the same sentiment. Don't feel bad whatsoever for the 55+ let go.
Unpopular opinion...I don't have much empathy for those 55+ that got forced retirement. Retiring with millions in their pension/retirement accounts after living through the best decades of O&G. The lake house and boat funds aren't needed.
I feel worse for the new hires and the ~40 year olds that are now thrown in the job market with little to no marketable skills.
If you don’t think the last round of ranking meetings had highlighted lists of employees that were retirement eligible, I’ve got a bridge to sell you. I truly believe that the company dropped the PIP on enough underserving younger people to make the stats less obvious for an EEOC investigation, but there were tons of older folks that saw their ranking plummet to force retirement in as many as possible. I’ve heard that they are well prepared for any Discrimination lawsuits that are brought. All they had to do was offer decent packages, as they have historically done, and as competitors are doing, and they could have accomplished their goals and not come out looking so lacking in ethics and honor.
You Jut came back at the wrong time. Since 2015 it was all chemicals all the time in EMRE. Chemicals people just walk on the water and sink everybody else.
Here's my take. I rejoined Em as an experienced hire at age 42. The first 4 years I did pretty well in the ranking but then it started to drop. I was working harder every year, learning new skills and mentoring younger employees. The key thing that changed, was I became part of EMRE. I was originally from the Chemicals organization. It was pretty clear that my number was up from that point! I even had my manager at the time say as much (wish I'd had that conversation recorded!) One of my main "mistakes" was that I was quite vocal in trying to promote "chemicals" in a refining-centric organization....and I was seen as a nuisance by management. My ranking tanked over three years and I ended up leaving, after numerous promises were broken and lies spun continually. I ended up having no respect for EM management. The concept of honesty and Integrity was very much a one way street.
Age discrimination is another deviation from labour practices. EM is no doubt violating from complying to common workplace exercise.
It is unfortunate that the company continue to deny they have breached the country regulations.
Lawyers working for EM should be ashamed for not upholding justice for and on behalf of fellow colleagues.
No judgement here, but if you older folks saw over your career that supervisors are treated better, why not become one or move to a different company where they appreciate technical folks. Supervisors are safe internally, technical people are safe in the external market.
I’ve had multiple managers tell me older employees, especially ones close to retirement, are put at the bottom of the rank group so younger employees can have the top spots.
I'm sorry, someone with 30 yr of experience should have a much greater knowledge than someone with 10 years versus someone with 1. If you old timers are going to rank and then degrade someone with years of experience because they should "know more" than a younger employee, then you should also be held to a same standard.
If someone with 5~10 years can come in and do the same work that an older fella can, then why do we need your sorry a–?
No question that rank for almost all employees drops with age, especially once you pass age 50. This preserves higher rankings for younger employees to serve as motivation, as well as control to ensure you do as the company wishes or risk losing your good ranking. For execs, lowering the ranking a few years before retirement also significantly reduces their total pension. That is why so many mid-level execs leave at age 55, before more money can be taken from their pension in the additional payments plan which is tied directly to ranking. Yeah yeah, poor execs, but when it happens to you, it is a huge financial impact. Plus, it is a shame to be ranked highly all of your career, and then be dumped to the bottom of the rank list even though there has been absolutely no change in your performance. What a way to end a career where you do everything right, but still get scre..d. It's all a game that EM plays. If you stay long enough, it will happen to you as well. And EM doesn't care if you sue them. Their lawyers will financially ruin you and your great grandchildren will have deceased before anything comes of it. They lost a major court battle a few years ago somewhat related to this issue, but it wasn't even a bump in the road for EM. That is what programs like PIP are designed for, to provide all of the legal protection they need to do whatever they want. Employees could never have much impact on EM. Only incompetent management could bring them down, and it is happening now.
A 45 year old should be treated fairly and not sacrificed because he is older than some other employees. Just be honest. Call it a layoff and provide proper severance like you did before and others still do.. Adults would understand that message from their employer.
Do you think they should get rid of younger employees and then have you guys retire in a few years, effectively losing both employees in the span of 5 years?
Look at any CL 26-27 or CL 28 rank list across the corporation and you’ll see younger employees comprising the top half and older employees comprising the bottom half. So generally, you have supervisors and managers in the top half and individual contributors in the bottom half. Ranking is also based on potential and higher potential is associated with the top half of the list. High potential is assigned very early in the career, is approved by senior mgmt and becomes a halo that protects the lucky employee as he moves through new assignments every 18 months. The employee’s current manager will maintain the employee’s high rating and potential that he came into the assignment with because the manager would not dare to objectively assess the employee’s performance and reduce the numbers. That would be like questioning the judgment of your superiors. So, the high numbers follow the employee through a career of either excellence or incompetence. He moves up the ladder either way. All because sr mgmt signed off on high potential early in the employee’s career. A self-fulfilling prophecy.
I had excellent feedback from all my customers - control room operators and contact engineers I was interfacing with. I was ranked in top 10% many years. And you are absolutely right. My ranked eroded with age and also my disagreement with bosses. We had bosses who knew nothing of the area they were supervising. I also saw many mistakes EMRE was doing. I had worked with premier companies before joining ExxonMobil. I have great success and track record. Yes, older age and inability to brown nose and say YES to insane things will result in PIP and NSI and other silly acronyms from this acronym loving company. I left, found a new job and I am so happy to be away from Exxon toxicity. Worst culture I saw in 35 years. But I can say the pain was compensated by pension. For people under 45, get the hell out. You will be happier out there. Other companies have nice and sane people.
EM has made a huge mistake, well I should say they continue because the mess we are in right now did not happen over night or just from COVID. They are getting rid of the folks that do the actual work and with that the folks that have all the years of experience. All that will be left in 2 years is management and do nothing know nothing newer employees. Both of which contribute absolutely no value to the company. Meetings and PPT presentations all day everyday is not gonna cut it. The current EM mindset is gonna be in a world of hurt real soon.
The old-timers just sit around collecting a pay check for doing nothing.