Thread regarding Ford layoffs

Layoffs can't happen soon enough

Layoffs can't happen soon enough right here in Dearborn!!! I hope they get rid of 1/2 (minimum) of all GSR's / LL's / and executives in every department. My neighbor is a GSR-8 (in engineering) and has spent the last year working from home on his race car! He tells me all the time, he hasn't spent more than 10 hours a week doing actual work for Ford. And the bulk of that, in his own words, has been reading/responding to emails. And I know, many of you are going to respond how hard you work and how many hours you put in each week. And I do know many of you do because I still put in my 40 hours per week, too. But you/we do not represent the vast majority of Ford employees (whether you choose to believe that or not). Don't believe me or choose not to. Then all you have to do is have an open mind and read the posts on this board and listen to the stories of dead wood in each department, agency/contractors who have to do the work of the their Ford employee counterparts, endless useless meetings, backstabbing fellow co-workers, managers that don't know anything about their own work groups, quality engineers who can't get our own company to cooperate, etc., etc. And if you don't believe any of the stories on this site, than all you have to do is try and remember back over a year ago before the pandemic and reflect on all the non-productive story/rumor telling, endless coffee breaks, long lunches, team-building outings, Home Depot project shopping, golf outings with suppliers (but golf was business related - wink, wink), etc. that occurred even while people were in the office. I don't think everyone just started being good employees now that they are working at home because of the pandemic. And this is true in every area of the company. I remember a year or so before the pandemic one of my co-workers was trying to get something done with HR (not a personnel issue, but something benefit related). It wasn't difficult to do and there was a time deadline before it became an IRS issue for the employee. A few weeks passed (and they kept telling him - don't worry it will get done). Well, the day before the deadline, the HR employee assigned to correct the payroll problem worked from home. Well, the issue was not taken care of before the deadline even though he had reminded her of the deadline. And when my co-worker inquired why, he was actually told by this person that she had spent her day at home making cookies for her kids! She actually told him it was part of her work-life balance! And for all of you arrogant know-it alls, who will respond how you would have taken it up with your manager or HR management – yeah right! Your ego is bigger than your brain. Our own manager did nothing also, because he didn't want to rock the boat in his own words. HR did eventually fix his issue, but not before he ended up paying a penalty (luckily not huge) with the IRS. But even though the monetary penalty was not huge, the time he spent correcting the issue and the amount of correspondence/forms he had to have/submit with the IRS was a major inconvenience for him. So yes, I say lay off 1/2 of all employees. Hopefully, (but I am not holding my breath) they actually keep the productive ones this time. And if they don't keep the productive ones, how many more years does anyone want to keep working for a leaderless, dying company listening to endless management and executive buzz words, going thru constant reorgs, all the while still having to put up with co-workers not performing while hoping/dreaming that VW buys Ford (which seems a little comical to me at least, but who knows)? And for all of you wondering, based upon the last round of terminations, I give myself at least a 50% chance of getting let go also. I'm not excited about that possibility, but I'm not going to start believing in fantasies that Ford management will do layoffs right this time either! I got rid of most of my debts, updated my resume, improved my professional network, and most importantly have prepared myself psychologically for any possibilities. And that is my recommendation for all current Ford employees. Don't tell yourself it is too late. Yeah, maybe you can't get rid of all your debt before any layoffs occur, but at least start getting your network contacts together and/or update your resume. And if you are a good employee, also don't give in to the mindset that you will do the minimum or just do the same output as some of your less-performing co-workers. It is too easy to take that mindset with you to a new employer. Even if we are let go, go out with your head held high is what I plan to TRY and do. And no I am not a brand-new 20 year old Gen Z employee with no house, kids, etc. who thinks I can solve all the companies woes with my heartless ways. Nor am I a 60 year old plus employee with a company pension and all kids out of college just telling everyone they know that they want a huge package from the company and then they will leave. I am right in the middle, in years of service, kids, mortgage, etc.

Well said, @cnk+19VHYeGp, bumped for visibility.

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Post ID: @OP+19WV9fGI

21 replies (most recent on top)

Like Ford rents employees?

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Post ID: @9sgq+19WV9fGI

Can this guy rent a paragraph?

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Post ID: @6pko+19WV9fGI

We have all known whiners who complain non stop about everything and anything. No one likes to be around that person. I don’t think anyone here is that person. If there are problems, especially with design and engineering, it is the employee’s obligation to bring them forward to avoid flaws and liability and it is very frustrating to have concerns ignored. If everyone quit their job when they became frustrated the turnover would be unmanageable as every job with responsibilities becomes frustrating at times. If you are frustrated everyday and that continues for a long period of time maybe it is time for a change. Only the frustrated person knows when that time has come. It is unhealthy to imply that every person with frustrations and concerns should quit their job because that creates a “yes” culture where issues are never addressed. An organization that never hears and addresses issues cannot thrive.

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Post ID: @3awn+19WV9fGI

@3szo+19WV9fGI

You are correct. Also, as I stated earlier a lot of engineers are REQUIRED to point out problems. This can be award and frustrating since we are placed in a position having little control and all of the liability. @1wyi+19WV9fGI sounds fortunate to have a very low stress position at Ford, and is basing his posts on assumptions. Dismissing people away that have valid complains is one of the main causes of problems in companies. This causes moral to plummet and wide spread apathy. Leading to even more company financial losses. BTW, I also have had real nice jobs ruined by a new management taking over.

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Post ID: @3vus+19WV9fGI

@1wyi+19WV9fGI

What you call "whining", I call it venting. It is better to let the steam off than blowing in pieces. Technically, it is healthy to express your frustrations and desires, even when done anonymously. BTW, you sound like a whinner too, complaining about other people protests. No worries, deep breath and just let it out. We are in a free country (I think).

Look for another job? Yes, that's a possibility. Not everyone can do it, though. Besides, what's the point? Do you truly believe the grass is greener on the other side of the fence? SMH. So far, I have worked at 16 different companies and in 3 countries. All companies have issues. People tend to adjust and trade off based on their interest. Maybe taking a lower salary to work on what they love, maybe taking cr@p from a manager (hoping it will go away) to keep the health coverage for their families. Heck! I've seen people stay in their jobs to keep the company car or the pension.

I had truly wonderful jobs, ruined when new managers came in, or when a company was bought by another one, or when my coworkers left, or when we were outsourced. Change is inevitable. I'll move when is convenient for me. In the meantime, I'll keep posting my discontent with the way Ford is doing things.

Thanks

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Post ID: @3szo+19WV9fGI

I have a degree in organizational change and Ford does not following the recommended path for making change. Typically companies seek change to resolve a known problem. There should be research, surveys, interviews, etc. to understand the root cause of the “problem” followed by incremental process and organizational changes to target the problems. There should be a lot of communication to help employees understand the problems along with what is being done to resolve the issues. Most importantly employees must understand how the changes impact their roles and responsibilities and how their behaviors should change. Ford’s organizational changes are usually communicated as budget cuts or structural changes (cutting leadership positions) and do not share root cause or expectations. Ford seems interested only in cost cuts without any research into waste or redundancy and as a result there are head count reductions without any process or culture changes. I have shared these concerns and it falls on deaf ears.

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Post ID: @3ocf+19WV9fGI

I don't recall any of my undergrad or gradate level classes teaching me how to solve organizational culture issues in a work place. Not my job. Engineers are required by their employer to solve "engineering" problems to produce a product that consumers will purchase. It is that simple.

Right or wrong people who are known to complain a lot, regardless of the issue are usually marginalized in the organization by their coworkers and management. As in all life situations, if you are in a bad environment or situation with no, or limited ability to influence positive change, then your only prospects are live with it (whine like a child, nothing changes) or find a better place. Key point, if you can't change your bad environment then have the emotional fortitude to leave it for a better one. I don't care about all the excuses why you can't..

As an engineer, if I was ever in a situation where I knew my company was producing something potential harmful to the consumer through negligence, I would exhaust all channels within the organization to make is know. It may still happen but I would have documentation of what I tried to do in the event of a catastrophic occurrence. That is the best I can do. The front of my building has a large sign that say Ford and that is not my name.

There are numerous causes for our current quality issues. I believe that we based to many quality decisions on under-developed CAE models. Just my opinion though.

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Post ID: @1wyi+19WV9fGI

@1nag+19WV9fGI

Well, I'm not sure which discipline of engineering you came from, but for a lot engineers their very career is to complain. Quality engineers make a career basically out of complaining, if too many useless meetings get in the way of solving the problem, they will site the cause of the quality issue. (Too much talking) Even design release engineers should do a proper DFMEA which is a lengthy list of complains. If an engineer is not complaining then he/she is NOT doing their job. Takata needed more engineers to complain about airbags, and they could have saved a lot of grief. Ford recently has had multiple recalls, there is a good chance someone knew something and decided to keep quiet, because they didn't want to be unjustly and subjectively accused of being a "child". The engineers at NASA complained about the Challenger launch.. but got ignored. I wonder if there were any engineers who saw problems with the validation of software at Boeing, and looked the other way, or got accessed of being "children" and to get a "backbone" and go away to another job. You seem focused on solving PERSONAL problems (which everyone has) but that is not the point here. Engineers are PAID to solve company problems. Complaining about problems is the way issues solved BEFORE they become BIG problems. (company losing millions dollars, layoffs, people getting k–led).

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Post ID: @1vie+19WV9fGI

Sitting on no high horse here. Second generation immigrant, grew in in a lower income neighborhood, two hitches in the US military, mostly overseas. After that worked contract overseers for a few years, Came back and put myself though school while supporting my family. It was not easy or enviable way to spend 12 years of my life but I did it to be successful.
You know how I have solved the problems that have come up in my life, I b–ched, at times felt sorry for myself, and in bad times got really drunk which didn't solve anything. Then I always pulled my hear out of behind and did the best I could to turn things around. I was not always successful at everything I did but I kept trying. I am soon to be a retired engineer.

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Post ID: @1nag+19WV9fGI

@1qjz+19WV9fGI

Well, la de da, Good for you. If you can step down from your ivory tower and be bothered to read the posts. This thread was a discussion on how to fix issues in the work place. I have done this in the past and have seen other teams fix issues in the work place. It is challenging and risky, but it can be done. If you have as much experience as you say you have, then you should know that one of the S.T.A.R. questions tend to be.. "how did you resolve a difficult/bad issue in the work place? If you answer I QUIT, that will remove you from being considered a potential candidate. Accusing someone of "complaining", "bored" and acting like "children" is simplistic and based on assumptions. BTW, what is your role at Ford?

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Post ID: @1xdw+19WV9fGI

Get a backbone and look for another job if your soooo scared of getting fired or you are bored at the useless meetings, or your boss is incompetent, or there too much favoritism or .........
I'm 60+, worked at numerous jobs, one out of state, don't have a pension, started my IRA when I was single and 22 years of age. The trouble with some of the posters here is they expect that Ford and other companies are suppose to provide them a job for life. You want a strong social support system where the company or government takes care of all your needs move to France or Germany.
If you have any guts, beef up your resume and look for another job. Stop complaining like little children's and do something positive for yourself and your family (if applicable)
Commence negative response and comments!

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Post ID: @1qjz+19WV9fGI

@lso+19WV9fGI,

Yeah, you're probably right. It's a catch 22. Say something .. you're trouble maker.. don't say anything and the department losses money and there are layoffs. One solution might be to go to a small company. If the owner/owners are in direct contact with the employees, the PC cr*p tends to be cut out of the way. Even if they have the "son/nephew/niece" as a manager and he/she his a screw up there is nowhere to hide. If your an agency employee at Ford you might as well work direct at a small company, since the agency company is a small company anyway.

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Post ID: @1twf+19WV9fGI

@lpn+19WV9fGI Ok, so here's the problem. At Ford, the quickest way to end your career and get put on a future layoff list is to speak up. For the first 5-7 years of my career I was the first to raise the warning AND eventually solve problems. I put in ungodly hours and placed company interests first. What you get in return is put on management's sh@t list because you somehow exposed their incompetence. Once on such a list, you are done because HR takes a hands off approach and never questions. Remember, there are problems because someone up high approved something because it was sponsored by a "favorite" or the leadership didn't have the knowledge or skill to stop it. Sure, go ahead and open your mouth but you will end up being framed as "not a team player". If it's my mistake, I will move mountains to fix and my tech skills are second to none and considered a Corp SMH. Someone else's problem, mouth stays closed. I don't care how many slogans they come up with, the fact remains that the same slimy leadership and their sponsored cronies are still in place. So business as usual. Now of course, if you are one of the "special" sponsored friends and family, feel free to speak up. Others, well you risk everything in opening your mouth. I did, so these are words to the wise. You can imagine how my stomach turns every time they tell people to be creative, take risks, speak up. Yeah sure, you have screwed so many employees over the years and promoted incompetence. Ford is where it is at because of how it really operates beyond the slogans.

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Post ID: @lso+19WV9fGI

@aux+19WV9fGI
I respectfully disagree with your statement:
"In most cases the people doing the complaining are not your best workers."

The people who care deeply and want the best for the company will point out mistakes, waste and fraud and suggest better processes and procedures. The people who are only collecting a paycheck will blindly do whatever they are told and ignore and cover up all problems.

Time after time I have observed the people proposing and developing better processes and products getting labeled as trouble-makers and non-team-players by supervisors and managers. Then when SHTF and it comes to light that the supervisors and managers knew of all the problems all along and had solutions presented to them - they deny knowledge and deflect blame onto the very engineers who presented the solutions and were told to bugger off. I can understand the frustration of these engineers and why they might be inclined to voice frustration about the state of Ford.

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Post ID: @rrk+19WV9fGI

@aux+19WV9fGI

"In most cases the people doing the complaining are not your best workers."

So if an employee sees something or understands a process where the company is losing large amounts of money, they should just keep their mouths shut and carry on? The problem with that is the company will only lose so much money and than wan to lay people off - hence the reason of this site. If employees point out a problem an prevent financial losses they can prevent the need to layoff some employees. Just sticking your head in the sand and/or looking the other way is not a solution either. It is an engineers job to complain. The engineers at NASA complained about the space shuttle Challenger launch, and got ignored, how did that work out? Well, since I don't want to get labeled as a "complainer" if I see/smell smoke in a Ford building I'll just look the other way and leave... who likes a complainer?

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Post ID: @lpn+19WV9fGI

In any company you will find all employees do not work the same, Hourly or salary. In most cases the people doing the complaining are not your best workers. As for protection Union vs. Salary well I have seen a salary guy take a drink a lunch and one auto plant a group of hourly were smoking weed. In fact one of the workers smoking it uncle was a Hi ranking UAW VP.
I read these threads and I can see when a Hourly or agency or even a company management write on this blog.
If you been in this business long enough Ford is downsizing. Make no mistake about that. And if the UAW thinks they are protected think again! Your membership dwindles by the year. Internal studies have shown when Ford goes EV 30-40% of the UAW workforce will no longer be required, mostly engine / casting plants will be idled. As for the salary in the fall of 2018 Jim Holland VP said right in a townhall "Make no mistake over the next three years Ford will reduce HC by 25% worldwide. Plus Dearborn is shipping commodity engineering (interior trim example) to Ford of Mexico. EESE was suppose to staff up to 770 heads why? And the other day the oval pulled the plug on OHAP.
Inside of eight years Ford will go through a transition. The Ford as we know will be different. Big question, will it survive?

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Post ID: @aux+19WV9fGI

To the OP - google "paragraphs", and consider using them in structuring your posts.

I assume you are in IT?

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Post ID: @ffn+19WV9fGI

Oh I believe that there are meetings at 7 am and 10 pm. I don’t believe they are productive and valuable meetings.

Sample Day in the life

7 am - morning stand up meeting, lasting 1 hour. There is maybe 2 minutes of value the rest is socializing and complaining.

8:30 - 9:30 status meeting to discuss where people are with generating new ideas and improving processes. Again nothing of value happens everyone just gossips and complains.

10:00 - 11:00 status meeting on a project which includes 5 supervisors and 18 GSR. We have spent 6 months defining roles responsibilities and a task list, zero actual work has been done. This meeting is hilarious as in the past the tech spec LL6 would of spent 1 week installing and testing the product on a sandbox, created a detailed run book and deployment strategy, then scheduled a meeting with 3 GSRs for knowledge transfer, and a week later the product would be installed in production. I guess that is what happens when Ford lays of the competent LL6s. LOL

1:00-2:00 status meeting for another project. This one the real work amounts to 5 minutes of work, but we have been meeting for 4 months with a PM to create a project plan. Initially I expressed this was all a waste of time for a 5 minute project. My supervisor told me to keep my mouth shut and not make waves.

2:00-3:00 team meeting. We share pictures of our pets and house projects.

Some days I have a meeting later / earlier in day with team members in China or India.

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Post ID: @spn+19WV9fGI

He said he has some meetings as late as 10pm.
That does not mean he is working till 10pm everyday. Or maybe he is...
I don't have the experience to post here.

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Post ID: @uan+19WV9fGI

@efd+19WV9fGI

Can't find where the author said they have a cake job. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Or maybe you just tend to embellish stories to fit your narrative. But the author did list MANY credible examples of poor productivity that I think most people at Ford would have to be completely blind not to agree with at least a little. Therefore, the author credibility rating = pretty high.

Now you write that you work 7am - 10 pm. Wow, there is some 15 hour days you put in. I'm pretty sure that is not a typical workload at Ford (but then I also like to say it as it is and not exaggerate.). You have 2-3x workload since previous layoffs (sounds possible that you may have had a pretty cake like job beforehand in your 20 years at Ford????). Then from 10pm to 7am you even have enough time in your busy, overworked life to read layoff websites. You are like superman (or superwoman) to keep up that workload. Your credibility rating though = pretty low.

And then the only skillset you list for yourself is that you go to meetings all day. That is a critical skillset for sure (worth at least $100K/year minimum). I'm pretty sure there are several (perhaps dozens) of comments from other authors on this site about the pervasive, useless meetings at Ford. I wonder how many of these people have to attend all of your meetings.

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Post ID: @kzz+19WV9fGI

Are you sure you work at Ford? Been there 20 years and haven’t heard of a cake job like that or someone who works for the company hoping for layoffs ...I had 2-3 x workload after previous layoff rounds (meetings from 6-7 am and some as late as 10pm with global schedules). Whether in office or wfh (no difference in productivity that we can see in our dept).

Gotta run the barrage of meetings starts at 7 today. 😩

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Post ID: @efd+19WV9fGI

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