Thread regarding Cisco Systems Inc. layoffs

My earlier post:

_ There should be well-defined performance goals tied to compensation & grade_
That’s a bad idea. There was an all hands in our BU about 4 years ago that received a very tough pre-question about the shambles of the promotions and either how they weren’t happening at all, or only to the wrong people.
So a director got proactive and put together a list of requirements for the level that I and several others were knocking at the door of. It was clear that many of us had been easily exceeding the requirements for several years. Well, then they were screwed - if we are all meeting the requirements and criteria for the next level - why is it not happening?

Silence.

In fact we’re still waiting. Of course, in that same four years every manager and exec in my management line in the BU had been promoted. Every single one.

Well, the VP in question has now been promoted twice in that time…

"If you are placed on one, find an employment attorney immediately"
I can imagine the type of person that posted this. I'll go with an operator that watches dummy lights all day long or or one that mindlessly writes bad code. I also think of someone like Eddie Haskell. One that has all sorts of bad advise to give and an instigator. If you are put on a PIP I imagine 99% of the time you should have been put on one. There are too many workers that can't take any feedback or direction, yet they want more money while working to find more ways to avoid doing anything. People that have been doing this over the pandemic have gotten worse to the point of arrogance in what they are and aren't doing. I will put someone on a PIP all day long with the hope they improve but with the resolve to move on if they don't.

"PIPs don't exist anymore. " --> oh but they do. Someone I know was put on a PIP last year, and laid off 3 months later. That CX employee was remarkably clueless and somehow managed to hide under many, many proverbial rocks for a very impressive amount of time. Things caught up with said employee after an internal job change: the new manager pulled the PIP trigger within a year.

There is always a bottom 5% no matter what. That's how it works.

But the most important question is whether or not that bottom 5% are meeting expectations and the rest are rock stars or is the bottom 5% not able or willing to do the job?

While top performers deserve more bonus/compensation compared to bottom performers, if you're on a small team that is full of above average workers, it sucks to lose your job just because you're not the top rock star.

_ There should be well-defined performance goals tied to compensation & grade_
That’s a bad idea. There was an all hands in our BU about 4 years ago that received a very tough pre-question about the shambles of the promotions and either how they weren’t happening at all, or only to the wrong people.
So a director got proactive and put together a list of requirements for the level that I and several others were knocking at the door of. It was clear that many of us had been easily exceeding the requirements for several years. Well, then they were screwed - if we are all meeting the requirements and criteria for the next level - why is it not happening?
Silence.
In fact we’re still waiting. Of course, in that same four years every manager and exec in my management line in the BU had been promoted. Every single one.

How is performance measured at Cisco? There should be well-defined performance goals tied to compensation & grade. Cisco has too many bureaucrats that waste years "managing up" instead of contributing business value.

There is always a bottom 5% no matter what. That's how it works. Any other way is socialist, leftist worker garbage that everyone performs equally and is under paid equally.

PIPs don't exist anymore. Why? Because they create a paper trail. Cisco doesn't like employee paper trails.....Cisco prefers LRs now. LRs are much easier......no improvement plan or justification needed.

Before the "LR era" Cisco was managing the employees by performance and Chambers used to mention "firing bottom 5% each year" in his every other speech.
Now the LR have one set of official criteria to be told to the masses and another top secret set of real rules. And also they make PIP unnecessary as a justification to fire anyone, so they are rarely used these days.

PIP was combined with giving tasks that couldn't be completed to create a paper justification to layoff even great employees.

I'm not saying i was a great employee, but I was good at what I did. The manager who hired me quit and the replacement manager took a dislike to me, and most of the original team. Within a year, half had quit for new jobs, switched to new teams in new BU's--sometimes w/ a promotion--or otherwise left our team. After that first year, I was suddenly put on a PIP. My tasks got harder & harder, and then when that didn't trip me up, the tasks started becoming taking on responsibilities completely outside my job experience and technical training, but the excuse was that as someone at my grade level, I was expected to be able to solve problems and "figure it out".

In April or May, the first early retirement was announced followed by the announcement of the first large scale workforce reduction (WFR) which was scheduled for Aug '11. Suddenly my 'goals' became much easier, more aligned w/ my original job function and then became almost nonexistent.

What's the point of needing a paper trail when you can just put people on a list and claim that they are "redundant" due to the "limited restructuring"? Someone on your team gets to suck up your workload until they decide that your role wasn't redundant and they need to hire someone to replace you.

It was hilarious telling literally dozens of recruiters the reason my resume looked like such a perfect fit for the role was because it WAS my role previously. How many immediately made notes in their system to not hire me because it must have been my fault I was laid off/let go vs. how many believed that it was just a mass lay-off to cut costs, I can't say because at the time Cisco didn't have the history of annual LRs.

At one time you couldn't fire, layoff a top rated employee. As Cisco declined they needed to layoff better employees. PIP was combined with giving tasks that couldn't be completed to create a paper justification to layoff even great employees. As cisco declined more they stopped pretending.

6 years ago I was put on a PIP. Today I'm a engineering director based out of RTP. Pips are BS. They mean nothing. Generally people placed on one bc their boss doesn't like them

Be a good grandstander and you will go far.

"I had an absolutely terrible employee that was disruptive to the whole team and HR would not let me put him on a PIP. After a couple of years I finally was able to get him out via LR."

The employee probably dealt with constant reorgs without any leadership. Have some empathy and look at the other perspective.

PIPs are not used that often anymore. In fact almost impossible. During the JC days they were used much more frequently. It all gets wrapped into the LR process. I had an absolutely terrible employee that was disruptive to the whole team and HR would not let me put him on a PIP. After a couple of years I finally was able to get him out via LR. This is actually really bad for the company (and especially managers trying to manage their teams) as there is no way to deal with employees that are major issues. Hence one of the reasons the culture is toxic.

At Cisco, the work culture is soul crushing. Even the most motivated person can be pushed to the bottomless pit with no way to return. For such people, lay off is an incredible blessing because Cisco forcefully extracts them and throws on to the ground. To give credit them, they treat laid off employees really well.

The Webex org, especially the Spark side of the company was complete cr-p. It had engineers bragging how they wrote 3 lines of code and they are done for next 6 months. Whoever can wordsmith those 3 lines can survive. If you are into doing, delivering and iterating, you are royally screwed by everyone around.

The managers from the first level to VP level were beyond incompetent. Forget about delivering value. It is all about self importance, how dare you try to talk to me who is a Senior Director, when you are an individual contributor. Why they had jobs remained big mystery.

If you step out of Cisco, you will see there are great companies with great work culture. Cisco's work culture, is an anomoly. Don't limit yourself and your thinking by how you were at Cisco. You will do million times better outside. Just be confident.

We all can see the results of this massive incompetence. They could not pivot to save their life when Zoom grabbed every single penny of net new revenue opportunity since last 1.5 years.

Don’t talk to HR. Don’t talk to your boss. Don’t sign anything. Don’t sign the pip.

I wasn't asked to sign anything when I was placed on a PIP. I was simply informed that I was on a PIP and if my performance didn't meet my managers goals, I'd be terminated. But that was back in 2010.

I've only see one person PIPd at Cisco, and he was beyond incompetent. Cisco uses frequent reorgs/layoffs to get rid of employees... not PIP

Yup, when Cisco announced the first big workforce reduction (WFR) that is now commonly referred to as LR, suddenly I wasn't getting newer, harder goals from my manager as an attempt to get rid of me legitimately and I knew that I'd be part of that upcoming WFR. And I was.

I have seen a couple individuals placed on PIP. It is rarely used at Cisco and is a last resort for people leaders. If someone is put on PIP they are a total loser and disgrace to the company. LR's are typically used to trim the lower performers.

PIP's used to be a lot more common under JC, but under the CR regime it's more common and a lot easier to just use the LR process because they don't need any performance documentation.

I certainly was not a total loser or disgrace to the company. I was under a PIP from Aug '10 - Jun '11 when the WFR was announced and I was let go in Aug '11. I was rehired in Apr '13 and remained an employee until Aug '16 when I was LR'd for the second time with no PIP, full bonuses every yr between '13-'16, etc. Now I'm back for the third time. Surely no one would have rehired me if I was a total loser and disgrace, and if they did, I certainly would not have been kept longer than the probationary period both times if I was.

I have seen a couple individuals placed on PIP. It is rarely used at Cisco and is a last resort for people leaders. If someone is put on PIP they are a total loser and disgrace to the company. LR's are typically used to trim the lower performers.

I've only see one person PIPd at Cisco, and he was beyond incompetent. Cisco uses frequent reorgs/layoffs to get rid of employees... not PIP

A way to fire people.

If you are placed on one, find an employment attorney immediately.

Don’t talk to HR. Don’t talk to your boss. Don’t sign anything. Don’t sign the pip.