Many people here complain that they work too much extra overtime for nothing.
What is the reason for that?
Does anyone still really think that they will lose their job if they do not exhaust themselves to the extreme or that they will get a promotion if they do?
I refused to be exploited that way and still haven't been cut. The irony is that HON got rid of many of those who worked long, long overtime hours.
31 replies (most recent on top)
@FEAEHD
You really must tell us what's your favorite flavor of corporate boot. Wait, wait... let me guess... how about an Oliver steel toe thats been lightly seasoned with cutting fluid and aluminum shavings. Sounds delicious. Really cleanses the palate...
3cgw, you said:
"FEAEHD, EEI was expressly forbidden by HR to be a goal. When they found out managers had employees write it in goals, a mass directive was given to write it out just days before goals closed."- Yep, because it was a terrible goal, like I said.
"However, despite not being an agreed upon goal, we were not allowed to give top 1,3,2 blocks if hidden EEI targets were missed no matter how much goals were exceeded. That directive came from an Aero Vp. So yes, EEI directly influenced a significant portion of raises and bonuses." Well, I suppose some rogue VP who loved the goal (I don't know which one that was, I know them all, so one of them is a big liar) did what you said. I can't speak to some rogue VP's tactic. I can speak to exactly what I said- that there was not a universal compensation spreadsheet that directly calculated raises based on EEI for everybody. WHICH WAS THE ONLY POINT I MADE.
So apparently, most folks on here simply want to believe lies to support their narratives, no matter how ridiculous it is. I tried to point out that there is some real bogus stuff on the site and to be cautious of it. As hard as I tried, there was no reaching you. I promise not to point out any more made up cr----a- as it's of no value to anyone.
Thats because Honeywell doesn't actually give out vacation. Another use of EEI besides stealing free labor from you so Honeywell can hire fewer people, is to effectively make things like vacation time disappear. If you have 80 hours of vacation time per year but you are putting in at least an extra 100 hours of unpaid overtime each year, you effectively took no vacation and gave Honeywell free labor to spare!
Isn't this great for the bottom line! I bet the board couldn't wait to show this new scam to wall street so they could get even more compensation and buy new mansions and yachts, all on your dime!
Most common reason is because you are stupid and think Honeywell will somehow reward you for this, they wont.
But really its not your fault. There is no such thing as human decency among the management at Honeywell. In fact they don't even have the dignity to be considered as human beings. They are only there to abuse employees and extract as much as they can then throw you in the trash. This is truly the worst company to work for.
Most common reason is because you are stupid and think Honeywell will somehow reward you for this, they wont.
But really its not your fault. There is no such thing as human decency among the management at Honeywell. In fact they don't even have the dignity to be considered as human beings. They are only there to abuse employees and extract as much as they can then throw you in the trash. This is truly the worst company to work for.
FEAEHD, EEI was expressly forbidden by HR to be a goal. When they found out managers had employees write it in goals, a mass directive was given to write it out just days before goals closed.
However, despite not being an agreed upon goal, we were not allowed to give top 1,3,2 blocks if hidden EEI targets were missed no matter how much goals were exceeded. That directive came from an Aero Vp. So yes, EEI directly influenced a significant portion of raises and bonuses.
@3adu, hon would consider the job half done if they only drove off employee good will.
I just find it amusing how badly this one idea of "engagement" backfired. The impact must be in tens of millions (hundreds?) in lost employee good will. Certainly I found my tasks taking longer so that I could report the magic 45 hours a week. I wonder if honeywell could sue McKinsey or whatever consultant triggered the push.
Really should be a case study written. EEI was an epic train wreck worthy of business school study.
Different managers used EEI in different ways. It’s possible everyone here is right about how the hammer was dropped in their orgs.
Its amazing to me the lengths that some people will go in order to try to defend the gigantic slave ship that H-Well has become. It is also difficult to deny and debate the shameful tactics that the company has employed in order to enrich itself and its shareholders, all the while at your expense via wage theft (i.e. unpaid overtime). For the folks who haven't yet weaned themselves off of the company kool-aid they now resort to splitting hairs that have been already split 4 or 5 times, trying to poke meaningless holes in the conversation for the sake of noise. It's their only option at this point given that the truth is not on their side. I truly feel sorry for these folks since clearly their addiction to the taste of boot has surpassed their sense of dignity.
OMG- re-read what was stated. I never said EEI wasn't a goal. I never said it wasn't in Tableau, or that is wasn't used in meetings to manage, or that it wasn't considered as part of the raise process. As a goal, it was used as all goals are, and much more by some than others, I have zero doubt. I totally agreed it was a terrible goal (from the get-go BTW). I ONLY said that zmg made up a total fabrication about there being a DIRECT calculation between EEI and raises for "every minion" via some "compensation spreadsheet". THAT is BS, and not one person here has backed up the story. It's simply not even close to true, and all people involved directly in that process know it. And as for the reactions to my posts- it does say volumes doesn't it? I did hit the fabrication pretty hard- but not as hard as the lies hit. The hatred of many folks coming to this site is literally blinding. I do hope for the best to you, I really do. But please take into consideration what you read on this site- and don't let your emotions make you see things that aren't really there.
I recall the EEI stuff being a Tableau web page that ranked everyone by name.
At T3 level I could see everyone in my organization. No doubt T2 could see everyone.
HR now absolutely forbids use of the term EEI or its synonyms.
Fill rate is the latest metric of worship. Amounts to the same thing as we do not have enough bodies so overtime is required to hit fill rate.
Meanwhile the cult of management continues to build walls between individual contributors. There are more and more topics that are management only and NDA every day. This opaque behavior is very corrosive and will backfire eventually as employees trust continues to erode. Ask google.
@bto, other shills - At least in Aero E&T, EEI was used as an input to determine raises, I GUARANTEE it, AND direction was given to not pass this fact along to non-management, other than "it's really important that you work your extra 10%" (then 15)
Why doubt these claims? They are clear and consistent, and contain a level of detail that points to the truth. People posting "50% layoff coming!" and "Aero to be sold!" out of nowhere are the fakes. Maybe you had a white knight VP who defied the mandate, but I will bet they weren't around for too long.
And where is the "glory" in a anonymous post about past events? C'mon, that logic doesn't even make any sense.
No such thing as too much unpaid overtime. If you can't put in the time, don't. Have some pride in your job as well as yourself.
Evil - good name for yourself. You can say this is all made up, but it wasn't. I was a mgr there for 4 years, sat in multiple salary reviews and saw the spreadsheet each time. To clarify, the spreadsheet was not at an individual level, it was a list at a departmental level that contained everyone's EEI. Also, it did not calculate the final raise with a formula, but simply was used heavily as an input to raises consistently. The ratings of your post and the other replies that confirm what I have said speak volumes. Unless you were in the room, which you weren't, you can eat a di-k.
EEI existed, it still exists under another name, and it's been used for years as an excuse for not hiring the needed people to get things done. It was also used as a way to shame and harrass employees into working a lot of hours for free. And when I did work those hours, I got ZERO raises, promotions, or recognition for a job well done. Honeywell is a company that talks a good game about ethics, compliance with regulations, and how awesome the individual contributors are. And then when it comes time to put the money where the mouth is, management is nowhere to be found. That's why Honeywell has a well-earned reputation for being a stepping stone company and not a place to have a real career.
I was talking with my Aero manager one day and mentioned that I needed to take some vacation. First thing he did was pullup an EEI spreadsheet to check my EEI. He did mention that my EEI, and my group's EEI, was acceptable, so no problem with vacation. My take away was that, if you ask for more vacation time than normal for your years of service and your EEI is low, well, best of luck getting it approved. Based on the old vacation policy and my years of service, I would be getting 4 weeks of vacation ... if HW starts telling me I can't have that much because my EEI is too low, then I'm gone.
I think the underlying facts here are:
- Customer being charged for inefficient hours being forced to meet EEI metrics/revenue.
- This causes artificial cost basis for future bids, making our bids over-priced and not competitive.
- Purely revenue based, not getting programs back on schedule, or increasing accomplishments.
- Causing overruns on existing programs that are still behind schedule.
- Basic fraud on cost-type programs.
Still going on today, just renamed.
Band 3 aero engineer here. My manager had an spreadsheet that showed eei for every individual (including himself) in the group and the group average. He shared it on screen (not anonymously) at our monthly group meetings. We also had a couple of band 0 (hourly) people in the group. Their OT hours were counted in the group average even though they were getting paid time and a half for their OT hours. His boss supposedly only saw the group average.
@1xua
There are legal reprocussions if the company changes the work week to a 46 hour work week even for salary.
That is why they made EEI. It is not an official or trackable metric or declaration that a 40 hour work week isn't the basis for one's salary.
When it first came out, we were told to use it to determine 9 block. And most manages quoted the metric in the employee reviews. About a week before releasing the reviews, HR had every manager remove any reference to it in a crazy last minute rush.
Was playing the EEI “game” a few years ago (as a grunt). Completely stopped on a dime when they announced they wanted 46 hours instead of 44. Add that to the fact that they severely cut our RDE budget since then (I refuse to work OT on overhead). Honeywell is such a train wreck…
The reason you're working unpaid overtime is you chose a salary position. If you want your overtime to be paid, work an hourly position.
zfd- And more than that- it was done by program and business as well! Indeed, metrics were developed (as they are for all goals), they were managed (as they are for all goals). EEI was without a doubt a goal. No denying it. But what we missed in our evil HR-dom was simply using them to directly calculate raises! Oh, if we had only been as devious as that. Next time... (C41)
Reality: EEI sucked. However, the point is this- when you read this site, be careful, people make stuff up. I suppose for the glory or something...
It was more than spreadsheets. They had a Tableau page for each VP, Director, and manager. It was reviewed monthly by the CTO (BS). There was no avoiding it. Yes, raises and promotions were tied to EEI.
cld/gnz. Ya, I believe that. Some execs went pretty hard at trying to manage the EEI. But zmg has the great new idea of actually having a "compensation spreadsheet" that directly calculates raises based purely on EEI rate for all minions. Again, as Evil HR Director, I must applaud the ingenuity of some folks, and am ashamed we never thought of it! (C31)
@svz, Glendale had EEI metrics for band 3/4 individuals. They didn’t really even try to hide it.
@svz
I can confirm my aero director had an EEI spreadsheet as well, and would have me explain monthly why each employee was not making or exceeding EEI overtime targets.
I can confirm that we were directed to rank employees lower, and justify in the review, by saying that they didn't contribute as much as their peers if they had lower than team average EEI.
I was a director when all this EEI was mandated. Feedback I got from my team is that no one had a problem doing OT to get the job done. When it was mandated, that’s when people rebelled and refused to do it. I pretty much agreed with them. When I was told to force OT but can’t tell them it’s mandatory, I left the company.
zmg- I have to admit, of all the stuff that makes it onto this site- the fact you actually made up, out of thin air, a nonexistent compensation spreadsheet with made up EEI percentages applying to made up raise percentages deserves an award. Bravo! I agree EEI existed, and that it was used by executives to goal other executives and in some mo--nic cases made it to goals of individual contributors. All true. But to expand that to "every minion had an EEI column in their compensation spreadsheet"? Genius. Almost poetic in its believability yet total absurdity. Congratulations....
Well things may have changed since I left 3 years ago, but I saw firsthand how unpaid overtime was absolutely used as a differentiator in management reviews of individual contributors, even though HW would never admit it. Even after the legal/HR crackdown on 'mandatory overtime', every minion had an 'EEI' column in their compensation spreadsheet, and it was used for rankings, raises and bonuses, if there were any to be had. Basically if your EEI was 0 or close to it, that would be your raise for the year, esp if you were above midpoint. 10% EEI was expected, which would get you the std 1.5-2%. The 15-20% EEI warriors would maybe pull 3%. Any more was reserved for the single point failures and young 'hi-pots'. Even saw EEI used for something as minor as assignment of new monitors! So so so glad to be out.
I love engineering. Creating systems and products is fun. For me engineering is not work and my hours are simply a measure of how much I am enjoying the team and the project. Sometimes I leave at 3pm. Sometimes I leave at 3am.
I used to get more opportunities to work those hours before Honeywell decided to shift most labor to the lowest possible bidder. To compensate I take side jobs that are frankly more interesting and more diverse than Honeywell can offer. Sometime in the future I will do that full time.