True story:
Friend working for WFC. Generally likes his job and coworkers, but keeps getting standard 2% increases. He has asked for raises in the past, but the manager always says he can’t make it happen “not a good year, at his mid- point, layoffs, yadi yada…”
Another company offers him 20% bump to jump ship. Friend tells WFC manager he has been offered 20% more to leave, and WFC offers to match the competing offer if he’ll stay.
I know what I would do, but what do you guys think?
@goc+1dRVdoFE also assuming your employer does not convert their pension or do away with it. I've started 3 companies with a pension over the years and had all of them discontinued before I left.
Leave!
Make sure they give the friend an exit interview
your "friend" will be out as soon as they can find a replacement
Post ID: @1abz+1dRVdoFE
Respectfully, it’s more about the fact that WFC wouldn’t cough up the cash until a competitor stepped up to the plate. At some point, you have to recognize who you’re dealing with and have the self-respect to leave. It’s like agreeing to stay with a husband/wife who cheated on you, or stole from you, for years. You’re essentially telling them you’re okay with it.
Some perspective here, since it might be necessary for some. A 20% increase in salary might sound like a lot, and it actually would be for some. For others, however, especially those making, say, over $100K already, a great deal of that gets eaten up by taxes. For those folks, they need a larger bump to realize anything significant in their take home pay.
never, never, never accept a counteroffer. this isn't specific to WF, it's the way of the corporate world. you're marked and you cannot succeed.
your friend should leave for sure; it's clear he only had value to WF once someone else wanted him.
Post ID: @wew+1dRVdoFE
Partially agree with you that it is not common for WFC to give a 20% increase to retain talent. Having said that, how incredibly sad is that? We’re not talking big bucks for most salaries here. Take someone from $80K per year up to $96K per year should not be so “unheard of”. Because WFC will do that and much more to bring over talent, but rarely to keep it. And that is one of many reasons why we are under a federal asset cap.
@goc+1dRVdoFE I wish I ere set up like that for retirement. Next to you I'll be a poor person.
It would take more than just a ‘match’ of the current offer for me to stay. They’ve already shown they will not appreciate and move you up or modify pay based on skillset that the other company obviously covets. Move on.
"There are no pensions so your 401k is portable."
Actually, my new employer does have a pension. If I retire there I'll make a minimum of 5k per month for the rest of my life just from the pension, assuming my income doesn't increase over the next 27 years...
My boss attempted to counter when I left. But the pay differential was a 50% increase so I told him not to bother.
Agree with the others here that your friend should leave.
The part I don't believe is that WF would counter with a twenty percent raise. I just don't see that happening here.
I've personally seen some really good people leave here recently - and for offers that were certainly no more than 20% over their current salary, and WF did not make any attempt to counter.
So I'm calling "BS" on that part.
So the new company values your skills and WFC takes you for granted. Remember there's a reason you were looking in the first place.
I am throwing the BS flag on this. Friend should just leave.
@wxp+1dRVdoFE
Then why wouldn't they pay him what he was worth in the first place? Why have him test allegiances before they grant him a raise? If they want to keep talent, they need to pay the talent and make them feel valued.
@wxp+1dRVdoFE, my counter to that is that Wells would only be buying itself time to find your replacement at a point in time that suits the company.
I agree. I have been in the same position multiple time and i have always chosen to leave. By the time i am interviewing and getting a job offer my mind is on its way out and for them to try to buy me back on the premise of what????? I actually am insulted by that garbage with oh you are leaving so we will give you a bump to match. It will be the last bump you receive and likely the money thing passes and you will have no opportunities for advancement here. Moving is refreshing you are building your portfolio of knowledge and honestly early in my career i would only stay with a company 5 years. You just get stale. There are no pensions so your 401k is portable. If you take the job because it is easier to stay you may be part of the next displacement but they NEED you now so they make their choice to cut you at their leisure.
If WFC matched the increase offered by the new company, especially in the midst of its consolidation and layoffs, you would be a fool to leave WFC. The fact that they met what you were being offered tells you that you are are a valued employee by the company, well respected. Why start from scratch at a new company.
Seems nobody thinks of the risk of going to another country as well. There are a lot of unknowns at new companies. I've seen people absolutely miserable and the company brought you in with smoke and mirrors. Yes, it's possible other companies are just as bad as WFC. But you at least know what to expect at WFC
If we are really talking about total comp -- cash, bonus, LTI, vacation time & etc. -- I would leave if I were in your friend's situation. Simply put, if the company wanted your friend, it would have paid him the 20% increase he's getting at the other company, before he promised to leave. WF used to be very close to market so it's possible that your friend is getting a new job with more responsibilities but if it's really 20% short is -- that's a real gap. Your friend should take the new gig.
I would jump, jump, jump.
I was asked to stay back in the fall of 2020 because I had another offer. I made the mistake of staying, and a few months later I could tell my position was slowly being eliminated.
So, I had to find another opportunity to get out before being displaced! The second time I took the offer and got out!
Maybe stay (for a bit)? If they are generally happy and the main reason to accept the new offer is the salary bump then maybe stay to get the immediate bump and increase in base. But remain open to a new company and when possible (opportunity and terms of retention deal) take a new job that is 20% above the new base.
But me... yeah, I'm taking the new offer
@jrq+1dRVdoFE feel the same way. They were either stealing from you (paying you less than what you were worth), or they are making an emergency decision, which they will resolve once your replacement is in place.
I would jump. If your friend stays he will go to the top of the layoff list both because of perceived disloyalty and his now higher salary.
I would NEVER take a counter for two reasons. 1- if you were so valuable why not reward you before threat of leaving? 2- they'll think they own you, gave you what you wanted so forget getting anything in the future
Good luck!
I would definitely jump. I would tell the original manager to shove it since he wasn’t fighting for me the whole time. I want to work for someone who doesn’t only cough up the money when there’s a competitor in the mix.
Also - chances are better that the new company will continue to reward my efforts.
I've taken the retention bonus option in the past with another company and regretted it.
Also, the culture isn't changing here, so your friend will likely be locked into that new salary for a very, very long time -- especially if it puts him/her at or near the midpoint. I'd compare the future opportunities for growth within the two companies.
Leave WF. I generally never accept a counter offer. When you do this, you have two negative impacts:
This is not a reflection of WF. It’s generally a reflection of all companies. Once you choose to leave a company, just go for it and don’t look back.
Trust and culture should guide. If the culture of the target org is not as silo'd, political and slow-moving, then jump. If the trust of the target org has been earned by leaders and the employees aren't constantly worried about what's really going on behind the scenes, then jump.
20% - depending on his performance and job title or job duties, it would be rare to get a match.
*Yadda yadda.
Having the experience of WF and it's "merit increases" I'd run as fast as possible to the alternative. What they do now to keep you isn't what they'll do next month.