I think most salaried folks do not know that many workers in the bank are hourly & do not get bonuses. They treat hourly workers as hustlers for OT & seem to think it is desired.
It is demeaning to hear "At least you get paid for OT" constantly. WF is real good at dividing employees against on another.
I would ask all Teammates to stand together and change this corporate behavior.
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I guess OT is still being charged pretty heavily in the org based on this thread. Hourly employee here with a bonus. I bill very little OT on a monthly basis these days. We’re pushed heavily to FLEX our OT into time off. Reports are being ran and OT questioned be Sr Leadership as we’ve seen the reports. When I hired on at a base salary of $100k I ended up with a Bonus of somewhere near $8k but made somewhere in the $30k’s extra in OT. These days the comparative salary is lower but I’m also working less hours so it is what it is.
There was a legend/myth that many moons ago someone or some group audited the STAMP system used by IT, and the STAMP hours by projects. Several people sued WF and got a huge settlement/back pay with interest because of the ungodly, unpaid overtime hours. Not sure if this is an urban legend.
I took an Analyst level role in 2012 which was Non-Exempt, hourly with overtime, not bonus eligible. After 2 years, my manager wanted to “promote me” into an Exempt position with a yearly bonus and dangled a corporate title of AVP.
I politely declined and said I was comfortable where I was and with what I was doing. I used humility when telling my Manager no, when in actuality I did the math.
40-60% of my Yearly Pay was Overtime. There was no bonus that would pay me $40k to $60k for all the overtime hours I worked month after month. If you expect me to work a project thru completion, across multiple time zones and be on-call and answer emails after hours, then I expect to be paid for those hours.
My Manager and HR said that I had reached Base Salary maximum for that Job Family and the “next level” for Pay Range was a promotion from an Analyst 3 to Analyst 4. Analyst 4 was Exempt with a 12% Bonus. However, I would be expected to work even more and take on more responsibility and manage Junior Teammates, which could possibly lead to me “eventually being a manager with my own team.” Again these were verbal promises, nothing on paper or guaranteed. What a pitch. Like a snake oil salesman. Promises, promises.
I did the math using a Base Salary of $100k for easy calculations. See below.
Exempt (Salary) vs. Non-Exempt (Salary plus Overtime Eligible)
EXEMPT
• Standard Work week of 40 hours, but you and I know that you work more like 60-70 hours on average, especially peak project times.
• Base Salary of $100k
• Target Bonus of 10-15-20% of Base Salary but with “Managers Discretion” (Meaning, “we weren’t fully funded this year,” and all the other BS budget and metric/goal excuses they come up with) so let’s go with a flat 10%.
• Standard raise of 2% year over year, again due to Managers Discretion (Meaning the “dog and pony boohoo show,” “we have budget cuts so this is the best I could do to spread it evenly between the team” BS nonsense, like my manager is doing me a favor to pay me what I worked and earned. Honestly point me to direction of the guy getting the year over year 6% raises and I’ll gladly let him slap me in the face twice.
• Total Compensation for the year $102,000 plus $10k bonus. Roughly $112,000.
NON-EXEMPT
• Base Salary of $100k, hourly rate equivalent of $48.08.
• Rarely bonus eligible
• Standard Raise of 2% (see above for typical standard WF Manger BS response)
• Standard Work week of 40 hours, anything over 40 is paid at 1.5 times the hourly rate, $72.11. Anything after 9 pm and weekends pays an additional premium, including hours before 6 am on weekdays. (For those who work international time zones.) But for the sake of this calculation, not including that. Only overtime.
• Average of 10 hours per week of overtime is $721.10 per week or $34,612.80 per year based on 48 weeks (minus 4 weeks for scheduled holidays/PTO)
• Average of 20 hours per week of overtime is $1,442.20per week or $69,225.60 per year based on 48 weeks.
Total Compensation: At a minimum $134,612.80 for working 10 hours of Overtime per week, or even more than $169,225.60, for working 20 hours of Overtime per week (Premium hours and weekend shifts NOT included - but could range anywhere from $5k to $15k)
For the Salary/Exempt employees, did you get a bonus of $70k? Maybe $35k for all those hours you worked throughout the year?
The Total Yearly Compensation of $112k for the Exempt Employee comes to $38.89 per hour based on 60 hours a week for 48 weeks. So you are being underpaid for position/title/role.
I think the Hourly/Non-Exempt person did much better. You tell me?
Run the scenario above again, but this time use your salary, and do a year over year projection of a standard 2% raise. Numbers don’t lie.
I have always taken a Non-Exempt position if the Exempt position doesn’t include a salary that is high enough to account for the hours of overtime that will be worked, and if the Bonus is not guaranteed and subject to change or is solely at the discretion of the Manager/Leadership.
For instance, using the scenario and figures above, I wouldn’t take an Exempt position that didn’t pay a Minimum of $165k, with a Guaranteed Minimum Bonus of 20-25%.
Protect your financial interests and future. Know your worth. Don’t get cheated out of Overtime. Always run the numbers before accepting an Exempt position with a Base Salary. WF is not in your best interest. WF has notoriously underpaid employees based on the Market Rate/Value, they are always a minimum of 25-40% lower than competitors.
When I moved from hourly to salary I took a pay cut.
My paycheck went up, but my hours doubled.
I think some people on hourly think salary is some golden ticket, and it is usually better, but we all have our problems.
Looking over the fence at the green grass is a waste of your time.
When I was hired, the pay rate was significantly below industry standard. WF convinced me to come on board because the bonus amount would push me into the normal compensation rate. The first few years - this was true. Now look where we are. Regrets.
I am hourly and on unlimited OT and we get monthly bonus. I would not take a salary at this point unless it was at least 50% increase on base as would be a huge cut in pay.
Half our team is hourly, half is salary, all are bonus eligible. We all do the same job, same tasks, same access, same everything, same salary range. Just some get paid overtime, while others get to work for free. Hopefully the new job architecture straightens this out.
I am hourly and would not want it any other way. I like the OT. I don't have to manage people. Best of both worlds. I guess to each his/her own.
IT guy here. Was on a team a while back where our highest paid employee was hourly.
He was the only hourly guy on the team. He was right there with us salaried people when we were getting worked to death with 80 hour work weeks and multiple overnighters every week to meet oddball deadlines.
Management had a fit, as he was the lowest guy on the totem pole and yet pulling in all that money. The rest of us were Engineer 5's and Architects.
They ended up "promoting" him to a senior engineering position, which he confided in me that he was not happy with, as it was a cut in pay.
@vof+1dwQVpxJ, how exactly did that change happen? There are pretty strict rules around classifying jobs as exempt vs. non-exempt. Doing it as a cost-saving move? Not a reason but a red flag.
I'd make a lot more money if I were paid for OT than I get from a bonus.
It was a cost saving move when my entire team was moved from non-exempt to exempt.
You can just look up the job titles in the job family tool…. Not that difficult
I've been both, transitioned from one to the other in the same job roles.
Yeah it's nice getting an annual bonus, but honestly I'd much prefer to be making OT.
When I was hourly, they always put a limit on the OT because WF HATES paying out double time. So, while I would occasionally have to work 12 hour days, 5 days a week, I was never pushed beyond a reasonable limit. I loved seeing big checks and getting it when I needed it, rather than as a bonus was nice.
As a Salaried employee, I've worked 9+ hours on holidays where I didn't get any extra compensation, let alone double-time and a half.
I've had weekends where I got 6 hours total sleep, no extra pay for that, and it's not like I'm 100% functional the following Monday, or Tuesday.
Working days off is a regular occurrence, since I'm in a lead role and required to cover gaps.
I've even covered shifts for EGS when we have had staffing issues.
Oh, yeah, and I recently realized I make slightly less than my state's law requires an exempt employee to make in order to be classified as exempt.
I'm fairly confident I would make more money as hourly. Not necessarily a lot more, but more.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I have no idea which employees are hourly and which are salary. So no difference in how I treat people due to that.
For whatever it’s worth, I do have friends who were switched from hourly to salaried/exempt + bonus. Their manager made it sound like a promotion, but come the end of the year- the people I know said they made more money when hourly + OT. Bottom line: WFC rarely makes any moves out of the goodness of their heart.
Think about this, almost all salary bonus people worked an hourly job at some point in their life. Either in a bank, ops, restaurants, etc. You can change that too if you wish.
Half my team is hourly and bonus eligible.
there are plenty of non exempt positions that are bonus eligible.
Having done both, I'm not sure I've ever witnessed any kind of discrimination based on this. There ARE people who milk OT, but many do not. As with all things, there are good and bad employees in both groups.
Take my salary and bonus, divide by hours worked (IT) and I bet there's not much difference between us.
Some of us salaried people get bonuses because our skills are hard to replace and we deal with unlimited piles of heaping bullschitt daily.
I'm sure hourly people do as well.
At least you get paid for OT