Which is the better job and why?
24 replies (most recent on top)
It’s simple. When asked about their eye-candy rating, customers consistently rank TSAs higher than SAs.
In fact, the only category that ranks higher is the venerable BA. And that, ladies and gentlemen*, is why BA is the future.
Go on, be on the right side of history.
(* I suspect that most of the keyboard bashing muppets on this site are mostly men)
@6izh+1eG7o5SS that all sounds like fluffy sales stuff. Technical people just want to talk about the tech.
People are finding ways around C2E. It does not work. How can we track the losses due to this. Ask leadership that and they have no response.
"why would reputation within a region matter to your career growth, unless you wanted to become an SA?"
Simply because when your region does better than peer regions you get recognized. Do this a couple of FY and you get recognized at the operation or area level. Having a RM or SEM that isn't your manager sing your praises is huge....have an OD or SSEM mention you as the reason they are driving "X" architecture means more than having your direct manager giving you a "that a boy". Have a customer send a note to the SA or AM about working with you that gets shared up the food chain is priceless. Sure this can happen on the two calls you have a customer via C2E but it is much more likely to happen if you engage with said customer on multiple issues that you find solutions for. C2E is likely great when we acquire a company to find those resources you might need, but relationships do matter if not then just pool the AMs
C2E is NOT a differentiator regardless how much EK and the SEDs try to say it is. That is complete BS. To the previous post about technical relationships, you are spot on, there will no longer be technical relationships. Sometimes customer just want to pick up phone or send an email and can no longer do this. Our competitors are now telling customers that they will not get technical relationships With Cisco due to the pool model that Cisco is moving to with C2E. There is no career path for those in C2E. C2E will be just like TAC as the average length Engineers will stay in C2E is 12-18 months if that and it will just like quality you get from TAC which is pathetic. Customers know this and are going to the competition. The attrition is significantly high and C2E is one of the major factors.
C2E is horrible. We have lost many deals due to C2E. We don’t use them any more if all possible. Our SAs in our region do a much better then TSAs in C2E. Customers still value technical relationships and C2E does not provide that. I have had one IT Director tell me that in order to continue doing business with Cisco, she wants local technical engineers and not the C2E that has given her team consistent bad experiences. As an AM, I can’t spend so much time repairing the damage caused by C2E with customers.
@6qto+1eG7o5SS why would reputation within a region matter to your career growth, unless you wanted to become an SA?
I am not @6ree+1eG7o5SS but I can add my thought. When tied to a certain set of accounts you can engage with the AM/SE/RM/SEM on how to talk about the technology, what to avoid, what to push, blind spots our competitors have all in a condensed version. They hear the same message over and over and pick up on it. You also get called out if you drove hard and positioned and sold the solution to the customer. Within that region or operation you get street cred after this happens a few times. Your customer also keep calling you direct because you added value to them. In C2E the above is very limited, in many cases the RM/SEM don't know which TSA worked on a deal or how much influence they had on the sell.
@6ree+1eG7o5SS You always say in these threads that C2E limits career growth but how? I don’t see why that’s any different than before.
The TSAs in Click 2 Expert have no career development options and there is no career path in the Click 2 Expert model. That is why so many are leaving and looking to leave. You will start to see even more focus on utilization and unless you are 100% utilized in Click 2 Expert, you will be pressured to take on my requests until you are at 100% utilized. You are essentially a technical call center. They will not allow you to do things such as self development and other pre-sales activities that you would normally do.
C2E TSAs are engaged in post sales but leadership does not want that to be known. C2E is career limiting. There is a reason why TSAs in C2E are going to the competition.
TSAs in C2E still deal with TAC and post-sales issues. It is worse now in C2E than it was prior to C2E.
The comment below that TSAs don’t deal with TAC post-sales issue in C2E is nothing more than a talking point to sell the field on C2E.
@5bkb+1eG7o5SS TSAs no longer deal with post sales. One of the benefits of C2E.
Keep in mind that as a TSA, you will be expected to regularly tackle post-sales tasks. I have seen TSAs tasked to solve issues that back-bone TAC struggles with.
Agree they bring more value to customers than most AMs but paid far less thus mini AMs.
If your long term career aspirations are to become a sales rep then starting as an SA could prove valuable.
@1tsj+1eG7o5SS agreed expect I wouldn’t call them mini AMs because they’re better AMs than the AMs are. A lot to be said about the decline of AMs over the years/decades.
Cisco SAs used to be technical but decades of subservience to sales leadership has turned most of them into mini AMs.
If you want to be technical and focused on a limited set of technologies the TSA is the path.
Having been both. The SA can own his relationship with accounts, it can be rewarding but as already mentioned you face tons of overhead. The SED will push "stuff", the SSED will have their agenda to make them the next SED so you have that "stuff". Then you have "stuff" the AVPs and ODs push down to all the teams(I like to remind them AMs are a team of one). In the end you have to get work(not stuff) done that really matters to the customer and to the sales process. The TSA might have a higher job class and higher base pay but you have almost zero SPIFFs...the flip side being you have a smaller product set but that can make things difficult as you really have to work but to sell to the customer and to the account teams. The plus for the TSA is little of the overhead the SA has.
You want to be a TSA. SAs are under paid and are micromanaged by their leadership chain. SAs have limited career growth and opportunities.
@1ami+1eG7o5SS nowadays they seem to prefer early in careers
@1mlj+1eG7o5SS why don’t you want to get paid on just your deals?
TSA generally starts at grade 11 which is better pay
As someone who has done both I vote TSA - Both have their ups and downs (worthless PSS vs worthless AM is about the same) but as a TSA the revenue risk is spread across many customers and there is the ability to focus on a technology area vs the entire portfolio.