Thread regarding IBM layoffs

PBC/Band/salary/income:

these are great topics in a vibrant and healthy company.. ie not IBM/Kyndryl

• your performance ratings really are irrelevant.. many 1 and 2 rated get RAd
• salaries for the bands are very wide and have so much overlap, the band is irrelevant (I was a manager for a while and saw the salary grids at the time).. ie it is very easy, and legit on the salary scales, for a band x to have a base salary that is 50% greater than a band X+1
• your real cost to the company is the total remuneration.

So I made it as far as 42+ years (continuous uninterrupted) and 67 years age.

My advice to longevity (if you desire to keep with IBM and its income continuity) is to anticipate and jump to a new role before if you can.. express desire for jobs that are hard to fill.. that's a hiring manager who will welcome you.

When you are in the IBM income raise process for 42 years without interruption, your base salary sucks (I always thought I had to quit/get rehired to get a decent raise).. ie when I saw what a recent hire 2 bands below me was making (more than me) I kept my mouth shut.. did not want to increase the band 10 bullseye on my back (hope youre reading this HR).

After watching that "income inequity" for 35 years, I luckily landed in a position that had Powerball commissions... but when your W2 is substantially more than your management chains... guess what.. peer and management envy (uncontrolled and immature).

"Rules for thee are not for me".

Even thought I was >150% of target I was threatened with a PIP.
PIPs are subjective BS so if you want to shut a PIP down get a lawyer to send an email to the HR partner assigned.. that will shut the BS PIP down quickly (IBM does not really want their PIP process scrutinized in court, or even the related PIP docs questioned by a lawyer).

Then I got an Official Warning Letter (I know.. that sounds like "cease and desist"), for "conduct unbecoming an IBM employee" (as if I had dropped an f bo-b to an customer CIO or something). I ask them to clarify where in BCG.... silence.

Rather than take IBM to court for their stupidity, I dragged it out and then retired.
Most of the people involved in this final episode of poor treatment i received were gone within a few months.. that was no loss to IBM.

Some of my best work years were at IBM.
And after those good years, I also saw the company degrade to what it is today, and rode that disappointment.

No I did not face the job change challenge that IBM experience on your resume might hurt. In my 42+ years I never really thought I fit in to the mold, but if I kept my mind in my immediate work circle, I could find a work group I resonanted with.

If you want the management/executive career path, brush up on your syncophant skills.

I've been working for IBM for 40 years, so am obviously over 60, still here, and have been through tons of layoff cycles. The decision process is more subtle than is discussed in this thread, or other similar ones. First, FLMs don't have a say. They are the messenger, that's it. 2nd lines often don't have much more than that, other than how they spread out their RA number, which is not negotiable at that level. Even then, I've seen cases where specific people were targeted and the 2nd line just had to do it. I know of one who retired rather than executing this directive when presented with this non-option for one of his long time team members, and that was almost 20 years ago. Things really haven't changed all that much since the pre-Gerstner days in this regard.
Since IBM did their major non-performance, and dated skill set, massive cuts in the early and mid '90s, the main factor I've seen in RAs is wrong place, wrong time (and yeah, within that group of course the poor performers are going to be gone first). These RAs have most often been driven by a combination of cost cutting (duh), off shoring (also duh), and strategic shifts (harder to read ahead of time). Notably, not primarily driven by individual performance, or industry-relevant skills.
The 2 times I've been RA'ed (IBM called it surplus'ed the first time - that term didn't last for long fortunately) but survived are:

1. '95: IBM bought into a market and sold the lab developing for that market (the purchased company has now been sold as well - nothing is forever). Everyone, lab director (VP) and down was in the same boat that time.
2. '16: a high priced consultant sold Ginny on a strategic direction, she hired him as a senior VP, and he convinced her to cut the number of sites for a given project down to 2 or 3. This wasn't overall a bad call at a high level, but made no sense at a lower level since IBM had moved in exactly the opposite direction for about 20 years.

The point is I had no individual control over either one of these. My performance was good, a long string of 2s and the occasional 1 (back in the PBC days), and my skills were good. That helped me get the next internal opportunity. But it would have also helped me get the next external opportunity. So, like everything else, all we can do is control what we can. So, in closing, that's my 61 year old guidance to the original poster. Say "OK boomer" if you'd like, doesn't bother me - I have 4 kids.

IBM has been doing RAs (that is their term for layoffs - ridiculous) early every year for over 20 years. This year is no different. Just be prepared regardless of skills or role, especially if you are older and expensive.

"That is, can hard work save someone's job?"
Hard work doesn't count for anything at Big Blew anymore!
It's all about who's arses you've kissed, and how many times!

"The question is, if you're reassigned to a different team and don't want to work there can you get RAd instead?"

Very unlikely, unless you have unusual circumstances and a sympathetic manager. More likely you will get PIPed out with no package.

I'm Band 10 with no degree. It's not required for most groups even when requested unless you're trying to climb into leadership roles (VP+).

The question is, if you're reassigned to a different team and don't want to work there can you get RAd instead?

Degree is not required in most cases even when its listed in job desc.
I know several band 07's with no degree.
Nepotism > degree

Getting hired on as a BAND 6 usually requires a 4-year college degree.

Now that IBM has announced its NEW COLLAR JOB EMPHASIS and is focusing hiring more on what a person can do/experience than a degree, I expect more BAND 1-5 to be coming in. For the company, they are looking at reducing costs/salary by hiring non-degree workers verses competition who require a 4-year college degree before they even look at your resume.

Personally, IBM will do anything to hire EVEN CHEAPER LABOR than they already have and are looking to the non 4-year degree group as one that will gladly accept those lower salaries.

Band 1 -5 no longer means non-degreed. That is old school. It indicates non-exempt and OT rules apply.
On the engineering side of IBM most techs I knew had a 2 year degree. Many with a BS. And quite a few took college courses at night that related to their field but never got a degree.
The best techs had great working knowledge of pneumatics , hydraulics , electronics , and basic chemistries. They also passed their knowledge on to the younger techs. This pretty much stopped when IBM started replacing techs with contracted labor.

I do not know where RETIRED at 62 is from but I was in Fishkill during the blood bath of 93. From then on , Sun Tzu's The Art of War, was my go to manual for survival at IBM.
It was a shock to some staff engineers that their troglodyte tech in blue jeans made more than them.
IBM no longer needs top talented technicians. The good news is that there are plenty of companies that want highly trained techs and will pay top dollar.

Just over $80,000 base band 05 salary.
The pay when including on-call, standby & OT is well into 6 figures.
Degrees or certifications are not recognized nor rewarded.

@2xsy+1eGzZ0XI

I left ibm already and hence can comment on useless managers like yourself.

Ibm doesn't require any upskilling because they're never successful in selling any new technologies.
Just as i said, useless managers don't know sh-t at ibm, you've proven my point.

new technology at ibm? Lol i can safely bet $1000 and tell you that you don't know what your reports do.

They show you some badges earned, (again useless ibm sh-t) and you're happy that they did "200 hours of training " and earned a gold badge but can't explain basic things.

After a while, employees figure out that managers don't care about the work but all this management bs and they stop doing actual work because reward for actual work is more work.

That's why ibm can't come up with any new successful product and ibm managers are the biggest problem!

Jan 20 announcement - with end of Feb exit.

@2txu+1eGzZ0XI

Band 1-5 are usually meant for the service industry leg of IBM. (TSS). Service Representatives and call center remote support all fall under this category. Band 5 is usually reserved for team leaders of these groups. Important work is still done at the band 3-4 level. They usually see all the nasty software code bugs or hardware design failures made by IBM at the higher levels.

Band 6 is the entry point for a new college grad.
Band 5 is non-degreed office workers (secretaries, admins, call center).
Bands 1-4 are the blue collar jobs (screwing together mainframes, loading them on truck, etc). Not many in US anymore.

Band 5 is paid overtime. If you are in Support, you work a lot of hours and get paid a lot of money. I've asked some of my friends and they said getting off the clock was the worse decision they ever made. But, Band 5 is a dying breed... too expensive and most are in their late 50's or early sixties ready for the exit (or got PIP'd or RA'd).

@1xrq+1eGzZ0XI
I’m the FLM, and your comment tells me and no doubt your leadership already knows else you will not survive in or outside of IBM.
If you are still here, it won’t be long until you’re not.
I have not told my subordinates to upskill, they have done that themselves, keeping relevant in an ever changing tech company. If you don’t look at the trends yourself or see where your BU strategy is going, then you will be left behind and be a target for sure, and that applies for any tech company.

Seriously tho. Band 5? I didn’t even think the bands went that low. I actually thought they start at a 6 or 7. What is band 5 - intern ? I’m being serious.

"I'm kinda curious what a 62 year old Band 5 does at IBM."

IBM = Top Tech
Navy = Chief of the Boat
Army = Sergeant Major

Nobody knows what we do (did) until it does not get done !
Everything from keeping the lights on to running state of the art semi tools. R&D fab still has top techs.

Don't call me sir , I work for a living.

Lol ibm manager telling someone to upskill when they don't have any skills themselves and do some side business.

I say this as a young person, ibm managers are the most useless of the bunch. Their job can be done by some hr and an intern.

Managers at ibm just slow down the work, put in hazards instead of clearing them, behave as if this is 80s ibm and act superior and arrogant.

These managers cannot get a job outside ibm, seriously and they make life difficult for everyone.

I'm kinda curious what a 62 year old Band 5 does at IBM.

Updated skills and hard work mean nothing to the axe welders.
Baby boomers should be the last generation to ever be caught by surprise and not have a substantial nest egg to fall back on.
My last first line was younger than my kids and was clueless about the extent of experience and skill sets that much of his older staff had. He and several others FLM were shocked as senior people started walking out the door.
Most of us had the choice of working for companies that were actually head hunting for us or taking early retirement.
The point being, you have to put the power in your court and make sure IBM knows it.

Band 5 , out at 62 , fully retired and debt free.

They don’t use new products so upskilling would have zero impact on job performance.
Go back to your agile meeting.

I concur. Old fogies blame it on age, but really they have probably not kept up their skills and have outdated skills, thinking and have just given up trying

Disagree with the comment of age. I’m a FLM with long tenure employees under me over that mark. It really comes down to hard work, personality, proven track record, flexibility, upskilling when needed to stay relevant to in demand roles or business needs.

IBM does not care about hard work... are just a resource with a number, and an age and a salary. When your age is over 60 and/or your salary is too high, it is a guarantee you will get canned. Now, if by 60 years old you still worry because you are not financially stable, this is really your fault.