“ LOL, no more pocketing the severance and starting at a competitor hours later. Cisco scr3ws the employees yet again. It’s like the parking meters that print a ticket for your dash - the value expires when you leave. There’s nothing “more positive” about any of this! Do yourselves a favor and get out!”
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I've been on two teams where LR's have occurred.
The first team was in IT and the people impacted were admin users, so all their admin rights were revoked immediately and they could no longer _do_ their jobs, so they basically re-assigned their projects and/or open cases to non-impacted workers. Basically got to use Cisco's resources to search for a new job for the last 30 days until the laptop had to be returned.
The second team was in Eng IT. Again, impacted users had their admin rights revoked. Beyond the first couple of days of handing off responsibilities, they were again free to use Cisco resources for looking for their next job until the 30 days ended and their laptop had to be returned.
Speaking of PTO, don't be surprised if 2022 brings a change to PTO policy moving Cisco into a "take what you need" approach and doing away with PTO accruals. Companies making the switch have found that people take less PTO that way and there's no accrued liability for the company to pay out when people leave.
I've always used about 50% of my PTO annually until I could get it up to a "use or lose" situation where I'd start using 100% of it. I did this in the military, and then with every civilian job afterwards. In the military, commanders could not deny leave requests unless you were on a deployment if you were in a use-or-lose situation, so if you wanted holidays, or specific dates that were important to you, you wanted to get into a use-or-lose situation. Cisco managers are discouraged to deny PTO requests if people are near their max PTO, plus it makes for a nice addition to your severance package when you have 5 weeks of PTO accrued.
If they switch to a "unlimited" or "use what you need" plan, I will be immediately using my 4 weeks every year instead of banking it to build it up. And they damn well better buy out any existing PTO from the accrued days when they make the switch.
All this talk about no more severances, but one thing is missing. We all know that you receive your package once you sign that you're not going to sue the Company. Without that money, the company can't protect itself from risk of lawsuits easy way.
What am I missing here ?
I'm a bit torn on this, I can see good and bad.
First the good: IF the time frames apply to everyone and are not based on length of service I think this can be a positive. The fall 2020 reductions were more generous than typical Cisco. Folks got 6 months (or 9 for "early retirement") who did not have long tenure. Typically they would have received just 1 week per year of service. For some that'd have been 2-3 weeks (plus the 30 day notice period). If everyone gets a 4 or 6 month notice its going to be much better for those with less seniority. And face it, they've already done a lot to weed out those with lots of years of service.
Typically when the LR comes around its a big disruptive hammer and about every req is closed before the LR actually happens. Telling people they can try to find something internal is sort of a cruel joke. Yes, some folks do get lucky but by and large most people are out of luck.
From a tax perspective it is much better to spread things out, possibly still vest your RSUs and maybe get a bonus. Yes, your IPF will get tanked so they can direct money to the people staying but it's still something.
And culturally its far better to clear out those folks who wait around for the LR package rather than find a job. Of course its not perfect, as you've already seen posted there are those who favor just sitting around doing nothing until the axe falls. Its always been my suspicion that lazy managers keep low performers so they have someone to contribute to the next LR rather than do the hard work of actually managing them out. Technically the old LR docs to state the expectation that you keep doing your job until you leave. Most managers were loathe to enforce that. I suspect that that part won't change. But there were a small few that I have heard of that turned a LR package into nothing with unprofessional behavior.
And for the bad? I suppose the question of how those last months will pan out is the big unknown. Previous paragraph hits on that. There can and will be managers that work the "LR'd" person like a dog up to the last. And you could still get boned on your bonus. And yes, there's no cash windfall from finding a new job quickly. Its unknown if you'd get paid out anything other than PTO if you leave before the warning period is over. I suspect that you wouldn't. The key thing is that if you're just hanging on figuring you'll leave with a nice chunk of change someday you probably should have left a long time ago.
Speaking of PTO, don't be surprised if 2022 brings a change to PTO policy moving Cisco into a "take what you need" approach and doing away with PTO accruals. Companies making the switch have found that people take less PTO that way and there's no accrued liability for the company to pay out when people leave.
"you prefer to have it dragged out"
Yes. A least while on notice I can still access all learning classes on Cisco's dime, pass certifications and land a few interviews elsewhere. Two months of salary aren't going to do much for me, as opposed to keeping my computer and learning resources for 6 months. Once Cisco has notified you, nothing much is expected of you so if you want to game the system, work two jobs simultaneously.
Do you have to keep doing your actual job or that work stops immediately once you are notified?
The NDA part of this is true.
It’s also true that this scheme avoids WARN style notifications present in many states.
It permits “layoffs” (notification into this scheme) to happen every day on an ongoing basis. But people just start to disappear over the coming months as they “resign”.
It’s much closer to a PIP than a layoff. It’s also cold, cruel and heartless.
@sig+1ea7rwsE So.. you prefer to have it dragged out, in contrast to just get the money for a couple of months.. interesting approach.. That mentality might explain why we decline for some time...
Lol there will be no “announcement”. Accepting this new “deal” means signing an NDA about it. You won’t actually know who is being let go in this new scheme until they actually resign. Even then they aren’t permitted to talk about it.
is this true? Has there been some official announcement? Please share if available
“ Man that just sounds cruel. Why drag it out so long? No one is going to want to work with an internal dead man walking. Will that person be shut out of company proprietary information? How can anyone possibly work in a modern environment with a scarlet letter attached to their badge?
If I’m fired, I’m fired. Get it over with and let’s both move on. This isn’t the college dating game. Grow up Cisco.”
"the husband pretends to still have a job"
Right. The difference in this case is that you still have a job.
but am already working 2 jobs even before this new policy - WFH. so if cisco decides that they no longer need my service and give 6 months to look for another job, i will just stay on cisco's payroll while doing nothing, meanwhile my other job will be going on and in that time, i will look for a new 2nd job (well technically 3 jobs now). cisco, be my guest, i will just mill you till your dry.
just drag it out as long as you can but work as little as possible and look for a new job quickly (but of course don't say anything). That way you won't have as big of a gap in your resume.
@vkl+1ea7rwsE This is just plain wrong, give people the lump and cash and the freedom instead of these cuffs in order to claim "but it is better for person xyz" whilst in reality the main reasons are likely cost cutting and getting out of some legislation terminology.
Reminds me of some old school Tv series and shows where the husband pretends to still have a job , maxing out his credit cards and sitting in the car all day, coming back home.. pretending to have a good day at the office.
If your employer deems it necessary that your skills are not wanted anymore, the contract should be terminated and dues paid. Correct is correct. Let us all stop this charade of "this is better for you" with an implicit "trust me" said....
It was explained in another post: "Those wanting to consider external roles have the benefit of remaining a full-time employee during external interviews."
First you get notified your job is on the line. Say your notice is 6 months. You can remain at Cisco for another 6 months, or find a job outside. In that latter case, no more Cisco salary. Rather than receiving a lump sum upfront, money trickles down the moment you've been notified and lasts while you're still employed by Cisco. I think it's psychologically easier than an abrupt termination with a lump sum. It gives you time to digest the news, update your resume and freshen up your skills.
Please do share some details