I have an opportunity to move into a non supervisory non exempt network engineering role. I’ll still basically be a tech eligible for OT but making a minimum 10 percent more base and working from home twice a week. I’m having a hard time deciding whether to walk away from craft or not. Would love to hear honest feedback about pros /cons of this transition.
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Been here 30 years as craft, watched a few of my buddies and some co-workers go into management over the years. None of them are here anymore, They didn’t survive the cuts.
10 percent of 40 hours is 4 hours. As a salaried employee, you are expected to work a 10 hour day. This is an extra (10/40) 25% more work without OT. You can do some of this at home, but may not be part of the extra hours. An try evaluating prior team performance when told only one can be rated top category.
Not worth an occasional long lunch on Friday.
“ Sorry, I retired already .”
And yet you’re here posting on a layoff board. Your family must be miserable having you home all day.
@3fci Pulling wire and pulling cable are different things. Inside wire (cat-5 / cat-6 or fiber drops are different from cable. Cable is multi strand fiber or multi pair copper cable in a splice or connected to the customers terminal. You need an experienced mentor. Sorry, I retired already .
Management is "at will employment". If you are in a senior position for vacation and look to not leave in the next 10 years; a promotion is a way to get rid of you. The surplus will not be your supervisors choice, you are the new guy.
But AT&T integrity would never do that to anyone. AT&T is in the business of making money by cutting costs. 10% more but no guarenteed pay increases (I got 1/2 of 1% mgt). And the pay brackets are lowering.
Unless you plan to leave in the next few years; this could be a bad bet. Craft maynot be perfect, but craft is honest, clear cut, and good benefits.
“ I worked in the CO for five years, never crawled on my hands and knees pulling cable”. You’ve never installed jacks under desks and other cramped spaces in your entire career ? You’ve never crawled thru attics ? You’ve had it cushy.
Spot on @2kbb….wfh= work from Honduras…Or India, or Kazakhistan, or Lithuania, or The Philippines, or….
I worked in the CO for five years, never crawled on my hands and knees pulling cable. While working outside as a digital tech both SSIM and Deg I pulled wire. While working in construction as an FT I pulled cable and spliced. When I worked as a pots installer (Services Technician) the second time holding the title I had to splice cable also. I think if you’ve done every dirty job they shove at you its gets easier. I left at 60 years old when they offered the 50g severance. Still used an extension ladder until I left, used my climbers a hand full of times. The CO ladders are on wheels, not difficult to navigate when getting older. A 28 foot ladder in the hood will require more effort. Take it easy.
The router provisioning is done in India. Special services techs call a US Nocc about layer 3 before starting 1 button testing. Any thing above layer 3 is done in India. Its been that way for years in the SE region.
Bad call, but it’s yours to make.
+1 while I am grateful to the company for all the opportunities to learn different technologies, i only wish i had stayed craft (occupational) when moving from comm tech to first line mgr.
I do not recommend to anyone to take on a so called management position with T, stay craft, or pick any other company to work for.
All you need to know is how relieved you felt when you told them "No".
You have made the right decision.
39 yr vet who turned down 3 "promotions".
Titles don't pay the bills.
"no real stress in my current position"
That says it all. Stay where you are. Once you get to management, it is almost guaranteed that you will have stress and worry.
If you are doing the wiring with your hands, I feel some safety in that. My seniority may suck but if I can make it a few years, I know someone in Mumbai or Bratislava can't do this work. I think the WFH movement is going to prompt offshoring to explode in the next decade. You just have to get used to the accents or take it to smartchat.
Op here. The title is specialist but after considering all really good advice/opinions below , I’ve decided to stay craft. As someone pointed out , if I can do the job remotely , how long till I’m replaced by cheaper labor overseas ? At my age, job security and the peace of mind that comes with it is important. I have no real stress in my current position and I imagine I would always be worried about my “numbers” and “ranking” as management. Some really good feedback below and I want to thank everyone for honest good input ! Thank you all !
The only thing that matters is what does the move do to your pension.
The position is basically for configuring CPE Cisco routers remotely.
Enough said. Satesh in India will be doing it soon and AT&T will keep you employed until the "knowledge transfer" is complete. Most trouble tickets I have that require tier 1 support have me speaking to a non employee with an international phone number. That said, I had a 5ESS trouble ticket lately that required tier 2 support. He was in the North East. What ever you decide, I hope it works out for you. Also, for what is worth, I'm just a union dreg central office tech with a degree and 2 mil in retirement savings.
If you are currently an Electronic Technician (Central Office or Power Tech) in CNO-CNIO, I would stay put or at least think twice about it. That is about the cushiest job you can have in craft with no chance of layoffs in the near or distant future. Anything else (Center Tech in EIOF, TRC, eCSPC, GSA, etc. or Outside Tech - DEG, Specials, ABFS, Cable, I&r, DTV, whatever), you should take the engineering job or whatever the title is (you didn't clarify so we don't really know). Outside craft jobs are basically dead-end vomit (DEG being the lesser of all of them...Significantly), so if that's where you are currently ------- GET OUT!!!!!!!!!
Sounds like Specialist or Sr. Specialist-Technical Consulting Engineer role or equivalent which is part of the AT&T TCP (Technical Career Pathway). You'd be crazy not to take it. Bye bye craft. Hello real job. My 2 cents.
Looks like you've got some good responses. IMO, you should take it and not look back as the last poster advised. Those negative opinions expressed by the folks who are or were 1B supervising managers over techs don't really apply to a non-supervisory role like the one you are interested in. Different career paths to say the least. Supervising 1B's (like DEG manager, BFS manager, I&R manager, CO manager, construction manager, etc.) are treated with a tremendous amount of disdain across the enterprise. They are absolutely compliance driven roles with little to no room to exercise innovation and discretion and AM (area manager) micro-management is extreme in both the consumer and business organizations. Even those folks that are highly competent and experienced and don't require much if any oversight to be successful are treated like kindergartners most of the time. Individual contributor roles are much different and that's why they are not in the same bucket. Good luck with whatever decision you make.
Hmmm…now that you describe to new gig, sounds like a sweet deal!
If this isn’t some “what if” post and you really did apply and have actually gotten a job offer, you would be silly to not take it. I spent 13 years in craft (outside - I&R, Specials & DEG) and have been a manager (exempt 1st level sup and now a 2nd level IC) for the past 8. No way I would voluntarily go back to craft…period. I was thrilled to escape the politics and childish antics of the CWA and still feel the same today. I’m educated, responsible, hard-working, innovative and career oriented. The union could care less about such things. Do yourself a favor, take the job and don’t look back. You won’t regret it.
I have 22 years with the company and I have been in management for the last 20 years, Started out as Craft, became a 1st level in 18 months and a 2nd level in another 5 years. I often question my choice of moving into management, due to the constant threat of layoffs (I have been through several in my departments and narrowly missed being let go), and constant reduction in benefits. Half of my team barely get any type of merit raise, usually .5-1 percent at most per year, while the other half get nothing. Even if you are a top performer, you may get nothing if you are at the top of your TSR, which is often the case. Management pays dearly for medical insurance with regards to deductibles and total out of pocket. Bonuses are hit or miss, some years we get 100-120% and others 70-80%. And now the loss of retirement benefits (medical/life insurance, medicare subsidy, etc) has been the nail in the coffin for many management personnel. There is now a lack of job opportunities in the company to progress as jobs and certain titles are eliminated or consolidated. No job security what so ever, instead of 60 days notice for layoff, you now get 14 days which is not enough time to even begin to get a position in the company, so basically you are out the door. I have technicians who often want to go into management and after discussions with them about the potential pitfalls, most decide against it. Actually, most of my techs make more than my managers do, and some perform the same job functions and work side by side with managers. I would say that currently the negative aspects out weigh the positives of going into management. I am grateful for the opportunities I have been afforded at the company, but I don't recommend anyone go into management, at least not at AT&T.
Best of luck to you with your decision!
Don't do it!
Retired District Mgr. NTE - San Antonio.
The closer you are to the customer the safer you are.
Seniority means everything in craft, little in management.
Engineering is also one of the first places the cut when they do.
Stay where you are at.
OP here. First I want to say thanks to all the honest feedback! Some good comments below. I have 26 years with the company and 50 years old so I’m at a crossroads here. My gut tells me to stay craft. My mind keeps coming back to the fact that this company of ours just can’t be trusted to keep their word on anything. I’ve watched them betray management employees time and again. However on the flip side I’m starting to feel too old and too much pain to be climbing ladders, crawling on hands and knees , pulling cable etc and not sure I can keep it up another 15 years. A desk job is starting to sound nice. The position is basically for configuring CPE Cisco routers remotely. Right now I’m leaning towards staying craft. As someone pointed out , at least I have job security and peace of mind. I’ll just have to start chewing more pain killers lol
Speaking from experience, don't go management. Good Ole boy network well established in engineering/construction. The raises go to their buddies while you get all their work and trouble issues to resolve. If you are competent in design and problem resolution you are roadblocked from moving on or promotion as those who do the work are kept in place. While their buddies are promoted. When you call HR to determine benefit changes they are not honest and give you a bs line "have a leap of faith". Remember it's not wrong to be providing for your family or yourself. If it wasn't about money these overpaid executives wouldn't be here. Keep in mind benefits can be reduced/eliminated as they have been in the past.
If you suck enough di-k, you're a shoe in.
Made the jump in 2000 (started in 1990). I was an OT hound in craft and made a lot of $$$. I did miss that for the first 2 years….. BUT the opportunities in management are MUCH greater, you don’t have to stay where you start. I have been in many groups over the years (Engineering, Mobility, ATS, and now Cybersecurity) and believe me, I am 1000% more marketable post AT&T that I would have been if I had stayed. I do miss craft don’t misunderstand, I adored the job, but you may limit your outside opportunities if you stay. That’s a niche gig…… I hope you get what I mean and good luck to you.
Beware of OSP ENG DESIGN jobs. They are leaving due to the loss of medical subsidy, that is why there is an "opening". AT&T wants new hires with NO benefits.
I interviewed for one of those recently in Florida. After 2-4 years when the fiber build is going to be done, there’s a good chance you’ll get shuffled around or surplused.
After seeing some of the advice given here it would not be wise to make your decision based on this blog (misinformation). For example someone said you’ll get a new management pension. Really? I thought they stopped that years ago for new mgr.
Don’t do it if it is an OSP Engineering role.
I'll keep it simple.
Management - risk of being laid off with only 2 weeks to find another job. No job security no matter what anyone tells you that the job has plenty of work. Quantum and the BS that comes with it(ask someone in management). Larger Bonus.
Craft - Much safer job security as long as your not on the bottom of seniority. Company gives you an opportunity to move into another job if surplus. Better benefits.
Sounds like one of those OSP ENG DESIGN jobs - beware if it is.
Good Luck!!
Are you ok with finding out tomorrow that you no longer have a job?
Had the same opportunity years ago and would have been giving up more than I was gaining from the management position. When I calked the hiring manager to tell him I wasn't accepting the position, he said, "I would do the same thing, not take it!"
I had an opportunity recently also to go to engineering. I have 31 years with only 3 years left to leave. (Will be 58 yrs old) If you plan on staying in this mess of a company longer than me, I say go for it. The experience probably would good to have under your belt.
Went from six figures with plenty of OT and stand-by/call out pay to non-exempt 1B with no OT.
The time off is nice...but so were the big checks.
You need to take into consideration, your current union benefits and the +- of what management will bring.
Depending on how much time you have, you will retain your union pension and then get an additional pension plan for management.
Healthcare benefits at retirement, are currently Zero Subsidy for management employees, going into next year.
Being eligible for overtime can be key, but some positions will be extremely limited in the OT.
Good Luck