I think we're at the point where we're safe from layoffs due to high attrition. They have found a better way to get rid of us. Basically, show us how little they value us and get us to walk away on our own. Give lousy raises, no bonuses, don't sanction hostile behavior of certain coworkers/managers... Things like that. Attrition goes up, they don't have to pay severance, and they are the good guys since there are no layoffs. Works perfectly for them.
38 replies (most recent on top)
Wow.
I'm old, I've seen other olds that outwork the youngs and I've seen youngs that outwork some olds.
So anyone saying one gen is better than another is full of it.
How it used to be, even before my time, was you got a job with deferred compensation, meaning a pension.
Since the 90's, they've raided those pensions and replaced them with 401K, which enrich the stock market but are generally not great for retirees.
The pension was a great incentive to keep people with skills and keep the productive.
The world is more complicated than 99% of the commentors here know, and 99% of them have limited life experiences to base their broad generalizations about what gen does what.
Some folks enjoy their work and want to excel, and some folks don't. regardless of generation.
Do you see a lot of 20 year olds in the executive suits?
Is that because they don't work hard?
Do you see a lot of greybears in the boardroom?
Is that because they work harder than younger folks?
I was about to type "so much time wasted on this topic" when I realized I'm doing it now.
Have fun with your video games kids, and see you olds down at the pickleball courts later.
@OP+1f6jbECg
The next 3-4 weeks are going to be rough.
@1vpq Sure buddy.
Post ID: @rhc+1f6jbECg
True. I have seen 30 something’s who haven’t grown up yet and 21 year olds more mature than people twice their age. Judge people by their own character instead of generalizing like political analysts do where they think people are extreme one end or the other when 80% are right in the middle.
@zwr+1f6jbECg large dept in Tech had a sizeable group of resignations on the Monday 2 weeks before bonus payout. Their last day is Friday. As the weeks go on you'll start to see levels of service drop in areas where these people left from.
I'm in talks with competitor for a role that does about 70-80% of what I do now and the total comp is almost a 30% bump. They also offered f/t remote, hybrid or an office - my choice. Reasonable responsibility, fair comp and flexibility - the holy trinity of a worker-focused company.
@rhc+1f6jbECg Be careful because you may be assuming too much. Marketing departments, the government, political strategists all do breakdowns on populations and groupings and come up with conclusions. I think what your referring to when you say "bias" might actually be an example of a statistical breakdown. So when someone does not fit into a category of pre thought, such as a Wells Fargo 66 year old black female who can't get away from her texting or a 24 year old Wells Fargo American of Indian descent who appears to have vast knowledge and skills rarely seen from someone at his age, maybe they could be considered exceptions. Common sense not shucked aside.
Personally, I immediately disregard the opinion of anyone who generalizes: old vs young, man vs woman, white vs black. I skip right over it when I see someone wants to broadcast their biases and lack of maturity.
All categories bring different soft and hard skills to the table. I’ve worked with all groups and have seen excellence and talent (and also problems) within each class.
I feel blessed that I was raised by parents who thought me to have an open mind and to judge each person for who they are individually. I wish that for everyone.
@izx if the "experience" they provide is having to beg others to do google searches for them, I'm not interested. I mean, I'd at least like some basic reading comprehension out of my elders.
Can't we just agree that any organization needs a good blend of age to be successful? The older provides experience, the mid provides both, and the youth provides the latest and the (hopefully) greatest.
called it, goalposts immediately moved... even though the sample size was larger and methodology was more sound than the study he himself posted, and makes specific mention of additional occupations were this was confirmed outside of nursing, its just not good enough for entitled boomer because he refuses to admit when he was wrong.
typical entitled boomer... needs someone else to do everything for him, too confused to figure out simple tasks on his own. and now that gramps has been proven wrong he'll move the goalposts because he can't stand that once again someone 30 years younger is smarter and more capable than him.
call HR, it's time to retire and let people who actually work for a living take over, you leech
Love it. Converso study: "The study was cross-sectional and not randomized; data were collected by a self-report questionnaire during a multi-center survey conducted in two Italian hospitals in 2016. In this way, 333 nurses were reached."
If I ever want to be a nurse, I'll remember this. And methodology was very "extensive" using a questionnaire without clinical observation.
@rpe Not the person you were initially talking to, but you confirmed that @tqq was right when they said "I also have to handhold them and spell out every step of the way, because they apparently just lose all problem solving abilities." How hard is it to go to Google Scholar and limit your results to recent years? Like the Converso, et al 2018 study that found "Multiple linear regression showed that age is significantly and negatively associated to work ability confirming previous studies in various occupational sectors"
I'm still just waiting for someone to post the name of a "current" study that refutes the Cogit study. But I guess that would require the "younger" folks to do some research.
"Much like yourself and your cohort, that study is old and no longer relevant."
lol you definitely triggered the boomer with this line, he's probably posting about it on facebook right now because he has no one else to talk to since even his grandchildren have cut off all contact.
@fpz That study is over a decade old, and the old people they studied were 65-80 at the time. They're 75-90 now. That generation of workers has literally retired or died off by now.
We're talking about the present day workforce, and the modern generational divide. Current studies show a complete shift from the 65-80 years of 10 years ago, and like wise the 20 something's that were just teens when that study was done and not yet in the professional work force.
Much like yourself and your cohort, that study is old and no longer relevant.
@dpz As a manager of a team with a large age range, this 100% matches my experience.
If I ask my younger staff to do something, a task that takes them a couple hours will take my older team members the whole work week, and they complain the entire time. I also have to handhold them and spell out every step of the way, because they apparently just lose all problem solving abilities.
As hard as it is to admit, it's impossible to avoid age discrimination when I'm going through the hiring process. I know older candidates will more trouble than they're worth, and more work for me and my team.
My team isn't the welfare office, team members shouldn't be paid if they don't want to work. And the older folks seem allergic to even the most basic tasks.
Sorry to burst your bubble. A major international study, the Cogito Study says otherwise. Here is an excerpt:
"older workers’ productivity was more consistent than younger workers’. The study compared 101 young adults (20–31) and 103 older adults (65–80) on 12 different tasks over 100 days. These included tests of cognitive abilities, perceptual speed, episodic memory and working memory. Researchers expected that the younger workers would perform more consistently over time, while the older workers would be more variable."
"But the data show something very different. The 65–to-80-year-old workers’ performance was actually more stable, less variable from day to day than that of the younger group."
"In fact, the older adults’ cognitive performance was more consistent over time than that of the younger workers. Why? Probably because the older workers’ wealth of experience enabled them to design strategies to solve problems. In addition, their motivation was higher than the younger workers’, and they were more stable and less erratic."
Please feel free to site the studies you have personally examined.
If only the kids knew how to wipe their as--s without asking a million questions if they are doing it right.
@uyk Literally every workplace study proves this wrong. The younger generation is much more productive and works for much less pay, and their skills are more up to date and not mired in bad, outdated habits. it's a no-brainer for corporations.
Meanwhile, grandpa is opening support tickets and calling everyone he knows trying to get help turning on the printer, and throws a fit if he's asked to do 5 minutes of overtime.
Nobody has willingly left marketing that I know of. The IHA is kicking bu-t and people are thrilled to be part of it.
I come hear for the rumors and also understand that this is a large company and that for everyone that had a great merit and/or bonus there is someone who didn't. to make blanket statents indicating everything is great or everything is terrible is just entirely inaccurate and every situation is employee specific.
The unspoken truth is that everybody knows that an oldster (boomer, to the children) outworks 3 or 4 millennials. They aren’t distracted by devices and have a work ethic that is unmatched from GenX onwards.
@tbs lol this is absolutely false. They are way under attrition targets. We will see layoff rounds picking up again in March. Especially since all the "just wait until my bonus!@#$" people were all hot air.
What I just discovered from my PR is that if Wells wants you they will pay you.
The problem with relying on attrition vs. targeted layoffs are attrition can (and will) come from all areas of the company. Layoffs are tough enough to absorb, but not backfilling attrition in key areas will cause a death spiral in some areas...
I’m wondering where all the “wait until after my bonus” quitters are. I know of none. All talk no action…
@tbs You've got to be kidding. A mea culpa after only two years?
Can confirm that there's been a higher than expected amount of attrition. Exactly how much I don't know.
As a reaction to the spike in turnover, they're starting up a program to lure retirees back as FTE's. They will have had to have 7 years of service, and have to have been gone for 2 years.
My read on that is that they're trying to bring back some oldsters to fix the culture damage that's been done in the past 2 years, and maybe trying to bring back some skills that have gone out the door recently.
RMDs let go yesterday....
2/24
Raises continue to be lousy but cash bonuses were better this year vs. last. Not better than targets 4-5 years ago prior to the account fiasco, but at least on the upswing.
I don’t, for one minute, believe anyone on this forum who boasts of “ biggest bonus by a mile” or “ “don’t know anyone who has left recently”. I call bs to the Aholes who just get a kick out of making others feel bad during rough times.
If you think all is good at WFC and you are happy working here, there is something messed up about you if you’re on this website.
Quite a few people would disagree with your comp analysis.
WF has not learned the lesson some others have. The wage discrepancy has been even more obvious during COVID. A lot of women especially decided it’s not worth paying their wages in child care when they can stay home instead and not miss out on their children’s lives. As long as they pay low wages, this won’t change despite their complaints at what they call “the great resignation”.
Stupid post but I did pretty well and I don't know anyone who's left recently. Sorry you feel all downtrodden and persecuted. Maybe you should look into working elsewhere.
Lots of tech budgets took a hit in 2022 between 5-15% but attrition is likely to soak up most of this impact, along with cancelled open reqs which are mostly backfill from 2021 attrition. Attrition will remain the name of the game...
Speak for yourself. My bonus was the biggest one I’ve received to date by a mile. Very impressed with the new way of rewarding talent