or is it all seniority based ? I know some have been promoted to higher paying tech positions in 5-8 years while others it took 12-15. or is it just a good ol boy network ?
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Nope, d-mber is always better and will always be a follower not a leader.
The expression ‘knowledge is power’ is poignant. The reason many more of us in managerial positions continue to educate, earn certificates and degrees, means we desire to be more marketable, advance of knowledge, and it increases our earning potential. So whether one decides ATT is no longer offering the best compensation package or the opportunity for professional growth, we are not pigeoned holed into a job specific slot. ATT is a huge global company with so many opportunities for employees to explore. You might need to change your perspective about how to ‘advance’….learning where internally the growth opportunities are, where they are geographically and determining your current skillset and where you want to go next is a good start.
Whatever you do, ignore the naysayers who suggest education is worthless and career growth is impossible. Don’t be one of them.
The amount of education doesn't mean sht anywhere in this company. It depends on whether you are a legacy or who your family knows, or who you know and are willing to suck up to and brown nose. You are doubly f***d if you are white male and strait over the age of 40.
@2zrm+1f88g9Kp
“So if you are a prem tech for example, you are all saying it's a waste to get a degree if you want a craft job since only seniority matters?”
Ignoring the undertone of your “question”. Whether it’s a waste or not is up to the individual. Just stating an obvious fact in that You absolutely don’t need a degree for any Union job at AT&T. If attaining a degree/higher education is important to you, then by all means, pursue it until success, but it will not influence or impact advancement, movement or sustainment within the union at T. BTW, Premises Technician lS a craft job in case you didn’t know. An entry level craft job, but a craft job nonetheless. You only need 3 things to advance in the union employee arena with AT&T:
- A clean discipline record
- Being test qualified for whatever the target title is (if required)
- More seniority than other applicants
That’s basically it. I use the word “advance” instead of promotion, because it doesn’t really apply with the union. Job applicants are not interviewed and selected based on skill, merit, education or experience. As long as the criteria mentioned is met, you can simply move into a higher rated title.
So if you are a prem tech for example, you are all saying it's a waste to get a degree if you want a craft job since only seniority matters?
In management.. its who you know and who you "satisfy"..
Well I’m a craft employee, Systems tech, of 27 years who’s had plenty of opportunities to go into management of all kinds. I have my CCNA and I have a business degree. I’m smart enough to know I’d be an id--t to trade in my job security and stress free job for an at-will management position that ultimately pays less for a lot more stress. I can take my degree and certs and go work for plenty of other companies But why would I give up this great paying easy gig?
To get a better union job than the one being currently worked, the employee takes employment tests for the new title.
I'm craft. I used the union program to get an undergraduate degree, in telecom of all things. It filled a lot of gaps in my knowledge and made me realize the value of a higher degree. What @fyf+1f88g9Kp said is completely true. There are some duds in management, and they eventually get placed where they can do little harm. BY FAR most of the outside craft I have to interact with would sc--w up a 2 car parade. I might be biased as I work in the central office (I'm bored, but it pays the bills). When I contact tier 2 support they speak to me as if I was a child until they figure out I know what I'm doing, after that they are completely willing to share the why and how of the problem. I usually learn something from them. I think this a problem. People like me have no desire to get "promoted" into an entry level management position where we lose our pension and health care in retirement. At this level, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze. Unless you have connections (our related to someone) to learn more about the network and the business of AT&T, it is difficult to advance.
doesn't matter on the management side either
"And the cut in hourly pay.
BUT YOU GET A TITLE!!!!"
What did your landlord saw your title? Did he take that in lieu of rent? Probably not huh?
It’s amazing how quickly the union responses came in on this one. They do seem to get bu-t hurt rather quickly anytime the truth comes out. I have been on both sides in many different roles over 24 years from craft to 1B FM to AM and now IC6 support manager. I have met those unqualified people, that were mentioned previously in this post, on both sides of the fence, but I can say without hesitation that it is much more prevalent in craft. At least in the organizations and departments I’ve been a part of. And I can honestly say that I worked with some fantastic people in craft years ago who were incredibly sharp and professional, but they fell into a very low % of techs overall who were truly competent in their jobs/professions.
I’m sure my post will be fumed immediately by some union person who thinks he/she is gods greatest gift to the company and will splash all about making lots of money, getting dirty on the job, driving their big boat and fancy car, retirement and fishing all day and I don’t really care. All I can do is post my truthful opinion for your all’s viewing pleasure and you decide to do with it what you want.
For the guy claiming how smart he was as a Field Manager during craft employee investigations with the union, you're bragging this? I was a second level who got laid off in ATT Business Solutions, who was offered to come back as a Term OPT. I had more education than my dbag construction manager who was a 20 year man who made it all the way up from tech to first level where he was stuck for 8 years. He was the biggest metrosexual and I basically told him he wasn't worth wiping my a__ with. He always made me climb poles even for street side work that you can do in a bucket just because he was my boss. That so called manager didn't know squat about construction or the technology. So, just because you're a management employee, that doesn't mean your associates degree or bachelors degree from some fourth tier university is any more valuable to AT&T.
Your truth is revealed in these responses. You all are a group of misguided, uneducated, and ill equipped for any other jobs other than field work—‘techs’. And it is just a matter of time when you will no longer have T to kick around because you’re dinosaurs. It’s very sad that you believe that an ‘education’ past a GED or high school is not valued and does not prepare you for anything other than what you’re doing currently ….. splicing and pole climbing. But, this is what you get when you have little insight or interest in bettering yourselves through education and believe that the company ‘owes’ you…Very, very sad.
If anything, your level of education beyond High School may earn you some ridicule and not much else. Won't get you anywhere. In that world, time is the be all end all. Qualifications, work ethic, education, not so much. I've had to lay off smart hard working go getter types over senior, lazy, entitled, combative a-holes more than once. And it sux.
I have a degree. Electronics Technology.
I was in craft for 40 years.
After one reaches top pay in top craft, there is no where to go but to take an entry level managers job. And the cut in hourly pay.
BUT YOU GET A TITLE!!!!
Some craft are indeed not qualified.
As are most managers.
But to say that "the working man with no education" is exactly why people you you are not taken seriously by those that actually produce something besides spread sheets.
We used to tell our bosses who realized they were some of the lowest paid people on the crew..."Think of yourself as the coach and us as the players."
It's OK, not every one is cut out for cold, mud, rain, heat, heights. And no way someone with your arrogance and narcissism could ever get along with customers.
Some are meant to collaborate, need constant supervision and moisturize their hands every few hours. Hope no one eats the quiche you have in the moldy break room fridge.
Responses like yours are nothing but jealousy and insecurity about what real men do for a living.
Oh, and I retired at 58 with full health care, totally out of debt and huge lump sum pension.
Although my hands are pretty rough. ;)
It is all seniority or who you know. Most with education are skipped over in craft because they are most likely to take management jobs. Craft is for those who don't have that advantage, the working man with no education, to level the playing field.
Short answer = NO
Long answer =
a. Yes if you have a degree from an HCBU
b. Yes if you have a GED, Community College or Basking Weaving degree and are related to an AT&T 3rd Level or above
c. Yes if you are "dating - and I use that word liberally" a 3rd Level or above
d. Yes if you have a degree in Engineering TECHNOLOGY from Texas A&M (and know
how to program a VCR)
e. Yes if you've driven by ACC Metro Center in N. Dallas
It is not just union jobs my first and second level both have GED,s. Most all of the promotions that have taken place in my 15 years are based on nepotism.
In legacy T, techs can take cert classes to make up to a couple bucks more per hour.
Yeah, years ago when I was a field manager, always got a kick out of union folks anytime I had to sit in a grievance panel meeting and go through introductions with them. They would be all serious rattling off their job titles and years of service like it would somehow have any impact or influence on the outcome of the meeting. And most of the time, those years of service that they coveted so much rarely translated to tangible knowledge and work experience. Some of those guys could literally work the same job for 20 years and barely have a basic understanding of what they were constructing, installing or maintaining. It was borderline comical.
Nope, not one iota. Education, skills and experience are not accounted for at all. Strictly seniority based. You can be as dumm as a box of rocks and move up through the ranks to group 1 or highest wage scale titles. This is assuming you are test qualified as well of course.
Unions are notorious for featherbedding, doing bare minimum work, and making seniority the only thing that matters for favorable treatment, plum jobs, etc. Education doesn't matter to the union one bit. In fact, if you talk to most union members about college or going "above and beyond" in your position, you'll realize that getting a higher education and bettering oneself to get ahead in life are actually discouraged, or downplayed at best. I did not find the union mentality very welcoming toward me doing anything to make myself stand out from the crowd in a positive way, or beefing up my skills and education for professional growth and development. Unions, and the CWA in particular, tend to encourage mediocrity and laziness. That has been my experience.
can you tell more about skill codes ? what exactly are the skills ?
There is no such thing as "promotions" on the craft, or union side of the house at AT&T. Union represented employees have a job title that makes a certain wage. If you start at lower than the max wage, there are incremental steps up to get you to that max wage.
If you decide you want to work in another title, there are things like AUTS that let you bid on jobs that you are qualified for. The bidders on these jobs are ranked by skill codes they have that meet the requirements for the job bid.
If you are a construction splicer, field installer, communications technician, etc. for 1 year, 5 years, or 30 years, there is no "promotion". Once you max out your wage, then you get an annual cost of living raise that the union negotiates in the contract.
There are things like "head senior" that are unofficial titles for the senior techs to help managers out, and they get paid something like $9 a day extra, but that's about it.