They are moving IT to India. If you aren’t leaving, you will be laid off this or next year. Many people I knew who had been tenured for decades, were laid off too. All in IT.
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I’ve worked in software development for 3 Banks and one S&L. I have never seen offshore development succeed. I’ve also worked with IBM in a project which we outsourced to them and IBM’s offshore developers delivered the same poor quality code that we experienced.
It simply does not work.
There’s this attitude among executives that resources in India are so cheap you can hire three people to replace one in the US. They figured out of the three that one knows what he’s doing. But in my experience India is like anywhere else. Very few people actually know what they are doing and are a little worse at their jobs than US counterparts.
Exactly, @2ijr!. If we just wanted to save money we could hire onshore high school kids to write buggy, unmanageable spaghetti code.
The major problem is that they don't have any real computer background. They take a couple courses to learn how to code an if-then-else or a case/switch statement but are clueless about things as elementary as data abstraction much less more complicated things such as design patterns and why to use interfaces or dependency inversion etc.
Be quiet and do the needful.
Oh please. They have tried doing this since 2004/2005 and it was an epic fail. They try every 8 years or so, same result and everyone goes back to doing their job in the US.
I think the separation of duties mandates that a developer can only sh1t and requires a CHG task for an underling to wipe and another CHG for the next underling to Flush. And don’t get me started about the test plan and Agile workflows for such events.
@1vbi
Agreed. The language barrier is real, but also their incompetence. I blame it partly on the constant churn but also their complete lack of caring about putting out quality code. Most of them don't expect to stay long (which given how cheap they are I get it) so it's kind of a result of that, but the genius MBAs in control of everything don't seem to understand that offshoring to "save money" ends up costing us a ton later on fixing their nonsense.
Our offshore teams tend to piecemeal things together that are barely functional (often times, aren't functioning correctly) and prone to breaking with excessive amounts of maintenance required. There's a lot of showboating on how they do so much but in reality they just VASTLY oversize the most simple of user stories so that they can pad their metrics. They like to do these grandiose demos to our POs of functionality that doesn't actually work how they present it or will break spectacularly if any variable changes in a way that doesn't fit their specific use case.
Generally nice people though.
"And who the h would ever want to work in India? That place is a complete h ho-e"
So, like Charlotte, then.
LOL @ cuts in IT this year or next. Really going out on a limb there!
@1ci, I thought WF learned its lesson like 20 years ago when they hired offshore (India) contractors to rewrite part of the application I was working on. It was a complete cluster and they walked out and never completed the work. There is the problem with the language barrier, but there is also the issue with them not being competent. The work is substandard at best.
Not for architects - unfortunately. We will never get laid off or be moved overseas. And who the h would ever want to work in India? That place is a complete h ho-e.
@OP+1gmE6JTN There are many teams in IT that provide different functions besides engineers that code. Any insight if this includes infrastructure, operations, field support, etc? j
You literally sound like you work on the same application as me... except I'm literally the only person who speaks English on it well enough to write like that, lmbo.
The manual end user testing was bad enough, but it seems only the onshore people do it because the 3 other teams (offshore) introduced about a million defects in a prod install we did in early January that the onshore team has to handle because, shocker, we're the ones working in the users' time zone. And of course, we don't have prod access anymore either so, lmao, that's fun.
Did I mention that about a fourth of the new offshore engineers were manual acceptance testers last year that have literally no coding background (and it shows) but did some several month bootcamp (that WF paid for) and now are senior software engineers? "How do I validate that this web service works?"
Don't worry guys, Cloud will solve everything. This "full-stack developer" isn't the answer. Laid off all our QA in 2021. You want to pay a developer to do official QA? Sure every dev should be doing minimal QA but user-acceptance-testing QA needs business knowledge I don't have even after 10+ years. Needless to say we've had issues in production but don't worry, the 6-deep toggles saved the day. Paying more to get less, sounds about right. Don't get me started on hard gating, JDK upgrades every other week (went years back in the day, on purpose), Maven/Gradle swapping and the endless script writing (automation, QA scripts, BDD, Jenkins). I spend about 10% of my time actually coding, rest is overhead. Don't get me wrong, we needed some of that overhead years ago but we've gone completely the other way so efficiency has tanked hard.
It's funny how clueless managers are about IT. They think IT professionals spend all their time is spent writing lines of code that can easily be shipped offshore. In reality, for every hour you spend coding you spend dozens of hours deciding what to code, getting access to the code, getting access to the system so you can investigate and test your changes, arranging to get the change validated, trying, wading through processes to implement the change, etc, etc...
That's going to be a long commute for them to come into our office.
IT Guy here. Fingers crossed. I'd accept a package in a heartbeat.
When and what groups? Programmers, service desk peeps, or what? I pray they lay me off everyday, I want that severance :)
Nothing new. I work with more Indians stateside than I do with any other ethnicity. 14 years at Wells. I've seen the numbers, they save a ton with offshoring. I've been waiting for my severance for a good year now. So many changes starting with Agile, it's a $hit show.
30 years too late on that piece of news and unsurprisingly, most of the big companies do it. Follow the sun support and overnight (US time) processing. Go figure.
I'll gift wrap my work for Ramesh. I'll wait for my severance.
Already in India. LOL
Tech is affected. Yippee ki yea......
follow the sun
There was a superlong thread on this - it's here @OP+1ecldRD7 or here https://www.thelayoff.com/t/1ecldRD7