I agree WFH is the best option btw. I’m just curious does anyone know if people will get fired for not going back in?
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So many hapless and helpless coworkers. People have been doing round trip 3 hour commutes their entire lives, often in heavy duty dirty physical jobs.
Such a fragile, delicate yes, and coddled, generation.
Absolutely. People will be terminated with cause, also known as fired, for failing to RTO. Charlie loves termination with cause as he pays no severance and our package here at Wells is the best and most lucrative in all of Financial Services.
Our manager (now gone, btw) wanted us to log in at the office, and then later to log back in from home in the evening to "finish our work".
My old team lead (now also gone) told him "That kn--e cuts both ways. After a full day's work in the office we're not logging back on from home".
@2wwj+1gvU6c7k they lost the benefit of me working after hours when they took away WFH.
Life Pro Tip: Once you have logged into the network from the office, do NOT log back into the network from any OTHER location for the rest of that calendar day.
Bootlicker Trap: A brown noser goes to the office, logs in, works, then goes home at the end of the day - and logs back in from home. As it stands right now, they won't get credit for having logged in at the office at all for that day.
@2wwj best case scenario they still fire you then you have all you need to sue for wrongful termination. Cha-ching!
My manager called me and said I was on some report that said I was not in the office last week for 3 days. I said no I actually was in for 4 since I am training someone. The report said I was not in the office at all and only worked 2 days.
I was so infuriated I started sending him emails where I was responding to him and pulled up the calendar and started listing meetings. He was like hang on I will check it out.
Seems that because I stupidly logged in at home after hours the report decided I worked from home. So I plan to start taking a photo of myself at the building. Good luck firing anyone with the ridiculous CPG data
"for all of us going to offices where we are the only one from our teams, myself included, be thankful you have that as an option because with all the colocation and location strategy talk, they could just lay you off and make all teams/groups l/directorates work out of the same location. "
Exactly. and that is being discussed in some areas.
I see the the headline as "Company fires employees for now following policy". It sux but it is what it is. and for all of us going to offices where we are the only one from our teams, myself included, be thankful you have that as an option because with all the colocation and location strategy talk, they could just lay you off and make all teams/groups l/directorates work out of the same location. I definitely feel bad for the people that were 100% remote prior to covid, but it is what it is and if they want to keep working for WF and don't want to find another job where they can continue working remote, they'll need to get with the program or risk getting fired. like any other policy at any other company, enforcement will be selective. Your manager will probably have little say in the matter and will be forced to enforce it because at the end of they day, if it is your job or theirs I'm guessing they'll protect theirs.
Some of you will, perhaps. Some of us won't.
You don't fire the doers.
If you're required to work in the office and are not in the office, you will be fired. You will not collect severance, you will not be able to collect unemployment. All of the emotional scenarios make good watercooler talk, but at the end of the day, WF is looking to reduce staff and costs related to reducing staff. Good luck.
and what you're missing is there won't be "mass layoffs" due to in-office policy. It will just be part of performance management. Enforcement actually is happening in some areas already - I personally know someone where this has happened - they are choosing to comply rather than face termination.
Prior WFH agreements all had a clause that said they could be revoked at any time, for any reason - or NO reason, at the will of WF. If you didn't have a written agreement you have even less to stand on.
onsie twosie disgruntled employees pinging press is just part of life in a large corporation. there's a machine to handle that.
If someone has a legit disability, they are accommodated - so there's not an "abelist" angle.
@1eye+1gvU6c7k What you’re missing is the potential legal risk and negative headline risk of the scenario. Especially for people that used to be full time work from home.
Remember when Chucky tried to pull this cr-p at BMY and got sued and had to backtrack? Granted that was in the UK which has much different laws, but I’m sure there are some highly effective lawyers in the US that would take up the case. And I can the newspaper headlines now “Wells Fargo announces mass layoffs of employees due to in-office policy”. Yeah, that’s not going to help the company gain business. Another headache that WF doesn’t need, for really no benefit.
All that said, I also wouldn’t be surprised to see them try to go down that path.
Basically it should be called “Work From Not Home”. I don’t do anything differently except drive to a location. I don’t work with fellow team members. I don’t talk to anyone. I go in and find an open desk, adjust monitors, find outlets and find cords. I then use Skype and email to communicate with co-workers. I do say hello to the one person I know in my area (know from a previous job and not Wells Fargo). Office work makes more sense if you are with people that you need to see, not ones that have nothing to do with your job. Also, the office talking in the background on calls is annoying. I always want to tell people on calls to turn down their TV until I realize they are actually in the office.
whether or not this can be fireable has nothing to do with whether different LOBs have different rules, etc.
it's just like anything else that is a job objective or expectation. if you personally (your team, etc) are told you need to be in the office and you are not... it's just like any other work requirement and can be grounds for termination. It doesn't matter if another group has a different standard, or isn't enforcing as vigorously.
How that plays out will be like any other performance issue. First there will be coaching/discussion at the individual level. then there will be documented warnings and then escalation until termination.
When you get to the point of having discussions, and then proceeding to warning, the arguments about dirty data, etc become a moot point, because the employee will need to start documenting their presence in the office/compliance with the terms of the warning.
Like any other dimension of performance some managers are quicker at dropping the hammer than others... so you can take that chance too and you might be one of the lucky ones... or one of the unlucky ones.
it is coming, it's just a matter of time...
What am I supposed to do if a child gets sick? Use a PTO. It's what we did pre- wfh.🙄
“Didn’t show up for work” when being called back to office by your employer is a great way to get fired. Yea WFH is awesome and better but WF doesn’t care. If you don’t go in or haven’t gone in at all you might as well quit. You will be fired. It’s one thing to get laid off and get severance but it’s foolish to get fired because you don’t follow policy in RTO.
For those that ask, what if I have a sick child, use PTO. If you have a circumstance that prevents you from going in for your 3 days, speak to your manager. But don’t abuse it. If you’re just not going in, which appears to be many on my floor, leave before you get fired. If you can follow your job requirements than you are being unprofessional and unethical.
I've heard the IP and VPN data is dirty and not all locations have badge readers, so I'll be curious how this might all play out
It seems like it is going to be hard to enforce to the extent of termination because of all the varying rules for different LOBs, backdoor exceptions, pending exceptions, etc. and they still can’t even get the locations in workday correct for some folks. Seems like there is a lot of legal risk in that scenario, even if it is “employment at will”. Although I am not an expert in such matters.
And all of this is in addition to the issue of having to deal with vast numbers of employee noncompliance.
I’ve been wondering if they are going to react by trying to enforce it harder or if they are going to ease up on the requirements. With the recent change in stance by JPM, I’m now more optimistic that Wells will take the latter approach, but we’ll see…
it will absolutely get to a point where people are terminated for not coming into the office when they've been assigned to one. It won't be a fast process, but it will happen. I just had the entire discussion with my manager, peers and HR.
to the person who thinks "whataboutism" (what about that person, why aren't they fired?) will keep this from happening - dream on.
I'm sure implementation of dismissals would be problematic based on selection of "targets". The potential for lawsuits for getting rid of one person and not another, with all things being equal, I'm certain would be a consideration that's plaguing upper management.
They haven't decided that yet
It will be interesting to see how they plan to prove non compliance. I still do not understand what people are supposed to do if their child is sick or if due to weather they cannot come in - how is Chucklette going to handle this - force them to take PTO? I am assuming the hope is they will not have to do it. Who knows