Thread regarding Ford layoffs

If Ford is doing so well, why have I received 2 emails in 3 weeks trying to get me to buy a new car. In your dreams Ford, you tossed me out like the garbage and now you want my help? Do you seriously think I would trust the quality of your recall-prone vehicles? No thanks. One more thing...you have some nerve even asking, what a bunch of entitled clueless leaders on your ship of fools.

There is no leadership left in the company.

1. The Train Depot should have come out of Bill Ford's pocket. The monies spent to date could have been used to fund a new vehicle program or help address the chronic quality issues.
2. Return to Work/COVID has been mishandled by the "leadership" and Ford Land. Buildings have gone on the market and taken off only to be put back up for sale. The hybrid work and work centers scheme is not palatable to many employees.
3. Adding too much unproven tech to vehicles that relies on scarce resources. This is what is driving customer dissatisfaction and an increase in TGW.
4. The tech company mindset that vehicle can be launched with the least viable functionality to upgraded or completed later. Fail for the customer.
5. Hiring second string executives from tech companies at outrageous salaries to transform the company. All they do is hop from one company to the next as they get in trouble or fail.
6. Preaching the blatantly false mantra "We value your experience, input and opinion. You the employee know the company better than anyone else."
7. Not focusing on where the company makes money, the US market. GM learned this lesson.
8. Keeping and expanding engineering centers in places where the company no longer builds vehicles or generate profit. When GM shutdown operations in other countries it was much more complete than Ford.
9. Deleting a selection of entry level vehicle for fist time buyers. Not everyone wants a CUV/SUV.
10. Going whole hog into the EV market without an understanding of the economics. Toyota has a much more rational approach. They realize an EV is not going to be a fit for every market and customer. When the company looses it's profit margin and sales volumes from the current ICE F150, it is doomed.

@8gag+1jAGVHAk All the engineers and scientists are well aware of the limitations and pitfalls of the EV technology (At least the ones able to think by themselves, not brainwashed by the media). Sometimes I feel like I am the only sane people in this crazy world, but then I see videos like that one, or talk to other "sane" people, and realize, once more, our voices are not heard.

The problem is the concentration of so many media outlets under so few hands, which makes it easier to spread only one point of view to the ignorant sheeple. The video is a good explanation for the neophytes, hopefully more people see it.

Ford is doing an extensive effort in PR to hide the ho-e we are in. Like so many before, (Soviets, Nazzis, North Korea) only pushing more good news and even blatant lies, the worse they were. Too bad the BOD is not putting all that effort in quality and improving the company.

The Ford family is betting the farm on BEVs, and I am afraid this will be the end of FMC. I don't care if the Ford family ends homeless (it would be well deserved for not handling correctly the company), but I am concerned for the hundred thousands workers that will be affected (me included).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptI6BRVC1Kw&ab_channel=JohnStossel

@7icn+1jAGVHAk 2 thoughts

1. I think you got my example backwards. For the finance comparison (40k bev vs. cheaper ICE), you are right. No harm. I'm telling you manufacturing efficiencies are trending the other way. BEVs will be cheaper to buy in 3 year than ICE cars. This is the threat. If it doesn't materialize, then companies like Toyota will indeed "win" because they avoided large investments in BEV technology. But tesla is already showing what happens if you optimize manufacturing around BEV technology.

2. Toyota is one of the most indebted companies in the world. And it isn't good debt like Ford has. They are indebted in order to run operations. This is a giant no-no. This means they lack access to capital to do any kind of real transformation,. I believe that is at the heart of their resistance to doing anything significant. I suspect they want to let it play out, then license the technology from the winner, rather than try to control it themselves.

Again -- One more time for effect. It is manufacturing efficiency and the innovation happening there that is the potential threat to companies like Ford w.r.t BEV-only platforms. Ford is trying to do 2 things. (1) Create capital to invest, and (2) actually achieve those efficiencies based on their current capital structure as best they can. It will be tough, but there is a path there.

@7kae - the politics being sold is that EVs are where we "need" to be due to climate issues, but the underlying politics will ultimately be revealed to be about controlling populations. Be exposed to hold unpopular beliefs and sorry no charging for you. Authoritarian government doesn't like protests or trouble makers causing damage and nobody is allowed to charge until "order is restored". Before you dismiss that as delusional what do you think Trudeau would've done about the Trucker's Protest if he had this measure of control in his arsenal? Or how the RCMP might respond to the on-going arson as----ts on the CoastalGas Link project?

@7kae+1jAGVHAk There are clothes made of organic sustainable cotton, but only a handful of people actually buy those. Most people prefer to pay for cheaper goods, even if they are not good for the environment. Why someone will pay for a "$40K BEV" when they can have a similar $30K ICE, or a good $20K used ICE vehicle?

BTW, only one buyer in four buys new vehicles. We had to increase the loan's term to 84 (and some to 96 months ) because people were already stretched out in their finances. Now look at the economy, look at how less than 50% of the households in America actually pay taxes, look at the average salaries and inflation in this country, and tell me how those millions of people can afford the "40K" BEVs, or get an "used BEV plus a $12K battery replacement" deal.

BEVs are not the solution, at least not now. Still, the id--ts in the government are pushing for BEVs replacing ICE, and the Ford family, just to not be less id--ts, are getting rid of ICE.

Think about Toyota, one of the largest car manufacturer in the world, with factories in the US, are taking this BEV push very calmed and moving very slowly, while keeping all their ICE line ups. That tells you that the Ford family is betting the company on the BEV chip, and as you may guess, usually a desperation move ends in bankruptcy.

I don't think you guys get it. There is a revolution in manufacturing efficiency coming. Don't think of this as BEV vs. ICE. Am I going to buy a 40k ICE car or a 40k BEV car. Think of it as am I going to buy a 40k ICE car or a 20k BEV car. That is where we are heading.

All of the cons you may list out for BEV become things that people will overlook if they pay 50% off for the vehicle.

Somehow the united states happens to have a company leading in the efforts (tesla). But the group of companies on its heels are Chinese. That's where the real competition comes from.

When 20k BEV SUVs start unloading from China to compete with the 40k ford Edge, that's when you guys should start wondering if maybe you have been looking at this all wrong. You are trying to frame this as politics. "liberal governments making me use stupid BEV vehicles" blah blah blah.

That isn't the threat. Open your eyes!

One advantage of age is you have the life experiences to see thru BS artists and recognize true leaders.
I remember 35 years ago my grandfather asking me if I would want my coworkers in a foxhole with me, and if I would follow my CEO into battle. When I laughed and said no to both, he said son its time for you to find a new job, you are wasting your talents and associating with people who lack character. Much later I realized his wisdom as those you associate with 8 hours a day rub off on you and lower your standards. And they certainly want to bring you down to their level.
Ford leadership is mediocre at best, those who rose thru the ranks are products of exploiting a toxic culture.

@2fxj+1jAGVHAk There is no hard data in what you provided. It does not provide data on how EVs will make lives better. It does not provide benefits to consumers. We already know what is provided. There is a shift to EVs because of government mandates. It doesn't really even bother to indicate if those mandates are in the interest of the people. Let's all get excited about meeting the government mandates.

@nvp+1jAGVHAk Keep drinking the KOOL AID. Time will tell. BF deer in head lights. was fired by the family before. JF Legend in his own mind. Not a car or product guy as he claims to be. So, I guess that is why we left those other markets. DF. Let's see professional job hopper. never been in any one place for more than five years. Yeah, that makes me feel comfortable.
BF leadership let's see nearly $3/4 bn for a "TRAIN STATION"! I bet investors are happy about that one. First it was a tech center to rival Silicon Valley (NOT). Then an EVENT CENTER (NOT). Now Apartments. Yeah, like I want to live in BERUIT. Commes with your own homeless person & wino.
Yep, I think the Kool aid drinkers feel really good about that now.

BEVs could stay as a niche market, but not as the main vehicle type. There is no chance that BEVs can displace ICEs, don't care what Munro says (and I respect the guy).

Not all EV companies will fail but Ford will due to poor quality and leadership.

Another great video, check Sandy Munro's youtube videos and educate yourselves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g63SJwFdGTQ&t=2248s

Check this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNHQOyz5TcY
EV's are the future for all Vehicle OEM's. get informed, if you do not like EV's fine but get hard data to prove your point, otherwise you are a bunch of bitter retrograd useless engineers that graduated from UofM / MSU Community Colleges

Ford could compete in ICE space for many years and was once a good company. In EV space there is no chance to survive when the real competition starts. It will fail.

They're jumping on the EV, chase Tesla , be Tesla, without understanding any of it, just like they did with autonomous cr-p. There were 3 brand new Lightnings at building 1/2 yesterday because they had some issues with a power surge while charging and low & behold, would not run. The 12volt battery was working so radio, lights, locks worked, but the vehicles had to be towed in.

Unfortunately Tesla Model 3 was best selling luxury car. It also was very profitable. These two facts changed everything.

Look at the discontinued hybrid C-Max. Those batteries only lasts about 4 years and costs about $4.000 to replace.

With all the debt in the world we are heading into the greatest depression so ev's will be soon forgotten.

Betcha they go belly up in 2 years.

No entry level vehicle to get young first time buyers hooked on our products. All the cars gone. Fusion was a nice vehicle. Us folks who recently retired still care about the company but the company doesn't care about us. Don't care about our kids that need to drive a safe reliable vehicle that doesn't blow up at 100k miles. Show me someone with 120k miles and on the first transmission? They don't exist.

Ford doesn't have a chance to compete in EV space when the real competition starts. Big talk isn't going to cut it.

Last year, I retired, moved to Florida. Saw the first 3-4 charging stations just yesterday, at one location.

EV won't take hold until EV charging is readily available at home/public station. And the charging must be FAST-- FAST CHARGING is truly the innovation that must occur for EV to take hold, attract the buyer.

The industry is putting the cart before the horse-- providing many EV vehicles, but failing to make its ownership complete. It's EASY for me to put a fast charger in my home. But make FAST CHARGING as I need such, along the highways, then I'll be your proponent.

nvp+1jAGVHAk They may think they know what they are doing but it will not happen. Poster said it. The Train Station total waste of money & resources. If his name was not on the side of the building, he would be gone.
Company lost its focus. A real leader is one who has a vision and a plan everyone understands. They have the trust of the troops. One thin JF lacks. BF totally clueless. DF his resume is sketchy seems to hop around a lot.
Glad I left in 18. I though JH was bad. it just gets worse. Press & some WS analyst give them a pass.
Keep an eye on those three new plants they build south.

Company will fail.

I seriously doubt that BF, JF, and especially DF would put Ford on a road to failure. I believe the opposite. Leadership is placing us in a sustainable path to be on firm footing for the near future which as you know is going to be all digital-based.