I know I won't be able to relax and stop thinking about layoffs. I admit, I am a worrier by nature but that doesn't absolve Cisco of responsibility for handling this whole thing in such a disorganized, untransparent, and prolonged way. I hope others can leave this cr-p behind for the coming holiday, but that's not me.
24 replies (most recent on top)
"I had a Cisco co-worker take his own life..."
So sorry to hear this. I wish I could tell everyone how my life is better in so many way since being LR'd. IOW I now have a life vs well, you know the alternative. One of the best things to ever happen to me in hindsight.
And you're welcome.
The reason I was not laughing at what I thought was your being a jerk is because myself and some of my teammates were LR'd in the same round AND one of them did the unthinkable. I also know of at least 2 more that did as well after an LR.
So anyway it just seemed to come off as insensitive and clearly it was just a misunderstanding. Sorry for getting under you skin. I mean it.
Text has no tone or body language. Sounds like we both read more into the comments than was intended. I got pi---d off for being called out for being insensitive when I thought I was being helpful talking about the risk of a lawsuit when you were talking about the unthinkable. I had a Cisco co-worker take his own life a year after getting married. He'd had a promotion at Cisco a couple of years before. He was the only remote US worker on our team, so he was only an email, text or voice on the phone, but he was really well liked. He'd not been LR'd, and as far as anyone on the team knew, was happy and doing very well. He's the only person I've known to do this, and it's not something I really think about, so I completely misread the original message and stopped reading halfway through because I thought I knew what you were talking about and wanted to offer my two cents. Thanks for understanding and I'm sorry I let it get under my skin.
"The reason I was not laughing at what I thought was your being a jerk is because myself and some of my teammates were LR'd in the same round AND one of them did the unthinkable. I also know of at least 2 more that did as well after an LR."
Make sure to send funeral notices to the ELT when it happens.
"@1urg+1jQO5Q6L, if you were referring to my comment about it not being a good idea to sue the company, based on a misunderstood censored word, and think I'm a great candidate for being LR'd, you can kiss my a$$. I've already been LR'd by Cisco a long time ago so I hope that makes you feel better. I hope you're not a manager at Cisco because you're an a$$ho-e. At least I can apologize for misreading and understanding a comment."
I'm no a$$ho-e but thanks for name calling. Sorry for jumping the g-n. I have gotten many Wheel of Fortunes clues without any letters turning up :)
I was laid off too and I only come here for the humor. I love the "RTP is closing", the "19 years" and even the "What about Lawrenceville" characters.
The reason I was not laughing at what I thought was your being a jerk is because myself and some of my teammates were LR'd in the same round AND one of them did the unthinkable. I also know of at least 2 more that did as well after an LR.
So anyway it just seemed to come off as insensitive and clearly it was just a misunderstanding. Sorry for getting under you skin. I mean it.
This is why it is critical in this career field to keep technology training up to date.
Put the extra effort and time into your own skills, training, and certifications.
In this career field, if you want to remain relevant and in demand in the market, there is little choice. Unless you are a skilled work politician or connected.
I am not a skilled work politician and not connected. I was LR'd. Like many I suspect reading here, worried about LR or LR'd; I let my technical skills somewhat deteriorate at the end of my Cisco run. I was very lucky to quickly get a new job, but it was a tough journey to evolve.
Either push and put the energy to stay relevant, or switch career fields; or change lifestyles so you don't need higher wages to support your lifestyle.
Good luck.
@kwi+1jQO5Q6L, I don't know where you've been that you don't even consider unemployed candidates. Good people can lose jobs because their company is bought out, go out of business, the business relocates to another state and you don't want to move with the company, or maybe even your spouse gets a better job, or is in the military and you relocate due to their new job and then have to find a new job for yourself. Seems short sighted of you and/or them to exclude these people.
I've worked at FedEx, Texas Instruments, Raytheon, and multiple nation-wide financial institutions, as well as Cisco. They've all hired me when I was unemployed.
I've rarely been unemployed for more than 2 months, and only once as long as 6 months and that was at Thanksgiving of '01 and was part of the dot com bubble burst. I was in TX working in the telecom industry and nobody was hiring in the telecom industry at that time. I finally had to look out of state in a new field.
You're also not considering the fact that Cisco is notifying people on Dec 12th, but keeping them employed through the 1st week of Feb, or as long as Mar 13th. That's 90-days of being employed to look for work before they run afoul of your company's sh---y rule of not interviewing unemployed people.
@gsd+1jQO5Q6L, I'm sorry. I read the post too quickly and, yes @1urg+1jQO5Q6L, I sometimes get the wrong word filling in the blanks. I guess you've never watched Wheel of Fortune and seen people miss more obvious words that that.
@gsd+1jQO5Q6L, I hope your wife gets the help she needs. And you're right, too many people give too much to a company that doesn't care about its people.
@1urg+1jQO5Q6L, if you were referring to my comment about it not being a good idea to sue the company, based on a misunderstood censored word, and think I'm a great candidate for being LR'd, you can kiss my a$$. I've already been LR'd by Cisco a long time ago so I hope that makes you feel better. I hope you're not a manager at Cisco because you're an a$$ho-e. At least I can apologize for misreading and understanding a comment.
Our so called "Leaders" will make a build ready later tonight, so that we can test over the Thanksgiving long weekend ! Few folks involved in this cr**y release will enjoy the sh-t on Thanksgiving.
Sorry to hear about your wife. I hope she gets the help she needs.
In the meantime, I see one person who responded should be a prime candidate for LR.
I guess filling in the obvious blanks is not this person's strength.
We even have a filter that lets recruiters auto filter out the unemployed.
I don't know where you've been, but none of my employers consider unemployed candidates.
"What is the grounds that your wife plans to sue Cisco over?"
What? I am talking about SELF HARM!
What the he-l does suing have to do with it?
My wife (a cisco employee) is talking su----e. I have to get her help. She's put in so much effort into this company (a mistake). She should have left long ago. It's a sad situation.
What is the grounds that your wife plans to sue Cisco over?
Age discrimination? S-x discrimination? Retaliation for something she reported? Good luck. Cisco's severance packages are pretty good, and you'll eat up a lot of your winnings paying the lawyers, assuming that you win.
Someone said employers don't interview or hire people who've been laid off. They definitely do not hire people who've sued their previous employers for termination. She better be ready to retire on whatever the lawsuit awards because she will be radioactive after that.
Yes, it is. Many if not most companies don't even look at applications from laid off people.
If that was the case, I'd never have found another job after the first time I was laid off, much less the 10th. Luckily Cisco gives us enough time from notification to actual termination that you can honestly say you're still employed at Cisco for, what, 60 days?
The biggest issue you face is how you talk about your departure from Cisco. Never, no matter how bad a company was, trash talk your previous employer to your prospective employer. They'll wonder how you'll discuss them when you've left them. And no one wants to hire someone with a negative attitude.
There is no thanksgiving here now. Spending time trying to find a job instead of being with family.
Enjoy your Thanksgiving. A few days here or there will not make any difference over the holidays because companies are not posting new jobs over Thanksgiving, and they're not interviewing for existing postings over Thanksgiving.
Use the time while you're stuffed digesting that big turkey meal to research resume writing tips and think about how to best present yourself to prospective employers. What have you done for Cisco and what skills do you bring to them? How much money did you save Cisco? How much of a budget did you control? How did you get more done w/ less work? Use numbers to show impact.
that doesn't absolve Cisco of responsibility for handling this whole thing in such a disorganized, untransparent, and prolonged way.
OP, I hope you get some cheese to go with your whine for Thanksgiving. Cisco get's bashed no matter how they handle it. Back in '08, they announced a reduction a month or so before the workers were notified in the summer. In '11, they offered the first early retirement and said if not enough people took it, they'd announce forced employee reductions once they knew how many people took the ER. They gave the number in April or May and notified workers the first week of Aug. Then, after Chuck took over and had no LR's his first year, he started announcing them during the year-end earnings call and impacted workers were notified the next day--surprise!
Being laid off sucks. I get it. I've probably been laid off--work force reduction, restructuring, limited restructuring, group/product shutdown, whatever-you-want-to-call-it--than you have. It happens.
I'll admit that they do sound a little disorganized this time in that they indicated that the lists have not yet been finalized. They've done this so many times before they should have a playbook to follow to make it go super smoothly by now.
They're certainly being transparent. They told the investors, and employees are free to listen into the earnings calls because most of us are investors too, and then they told us the next day. The only thing not transparent is who is impacted at this time and they've never told specific people or teams ahead of time as far back as '08. Were you complaining about how they handled the last ER and voluntary/involuntary reduction of "at risk" employees? This seems pretty much the same process as the last one.
Frankly, having been the target of "surprise, you're gone!" notifications and "hey, we're going to let a bunch of people go in 30, 60, 90 days, get ready", I'll take the prolonged advanced notice any day. I had a company terminate me and 7 others by surprise on the Monday after Thanksgiving so that our last day of employment was on Dec 29th and they paid out the annual 401(k) matching to all employees a/o Dec 31 so they didn't have to pay the matching contributions. At least Cisco is keeping you as an employee until Feb/Mar when other companies are starting up hiring for their new fiscal years instead of terminating your employment in Nov and letting you waste your severance trying to survive the slow hiring months of Nov, Dec and Jan.
- How would you have organized this LR decision?
- How much notice would you give employees?
- How long would you allow them to remain employees after being notified?
- How much severance would you give them?
Out of all the lay-off terminations I've gone through, Cisco's have by far been the most generous in severance packages. What I find the most "heartless" is the script that the manager's have to read to you without deviation. One manager tried to tell me he "tried to help me by positioning me to avoid it" when I know for a fact that he'd put me directly into the line of fire. But that was because he was an a$$ and was trying to get rid of all of the legacy team he inherited and replace them with new hires of his choosing so he'd have "yes" men.
"I also know being laid off isn’t held against you the same way and I can find a new job."
Yes, it is. Many if not most companies don't even look at applications from laid off people.
There is no thanksgiving here now. Spending time trying to find a job instead of being with family.
I disagree that it's "unorganized and untransparent". The ELT communicated their intentions and gave details on the severance package(s) in the company check-in last Weds. The company has done this many times and does so in a very organized and very transparent fashion. My advice: don't worry about things you can't control.
More notice seems better than less notice to me. At least they let us know before some folks went crazy on Black Friday deals.
And the layoff date of notice is soon enough we can still buy Christmas presents after the layoffs are announced if we aren't axed.
If you are going to lay people off in the holiday season, which sucks, this seems like the least cr---y timing I can think of - enough timing to not buy loads of presents, enough timing to still buy presents afterwards.
And this is yearly with Cisco - no sense worrying about it. We are all, always, on the chopping block.
Not my family.
My wife (a cisco employee) is talking su----e. I have to get her help. She's put in so much effort into this company (a mistake). She should have left long ago. It's a sad situation.
I think what's worse is that she has done everything asked of her and so much more. Tried to explain to her a long time ago that she has to leave, but wouldn't listen.
They get dinged for giving too much notice; they get dinged for not giving enough notice. Can't win. What's the alternative? "Hey everyone, were going to have layoffs... you'll be notified tomorrow." Waaa, they sprang this on us..! "Hey everyone, we're going to have some layoffs... we'll let you know in a month". Waaa, too much to think about it, now I'm depressed. Someone calculate the optimal # of days. 13? 11.256? Whatever.
If I get LRd, I know I have an income until May. I’ve already put out feelers and have interviews lined up. Be proactive instead of worrying about what ifs. I really hate the 3 week wait but I also know being laid off isn’t held against you the same way and I can find a new job.
When there's so much food on the table, I couldn't care less about anything else, including Cisco.