... go to the benchmarking center and check out the Chinese EV's they have on display. They're no joke. They'd be very affordable without tariffs, and very competitive with tariffs. The challenge to Ford, and probably ever US automaker other than Tesla, is that these vehicles are nice. They're stylish, full size, very comfortable, full of features, they have great fit and finish, and they appear to be well built. While Ford is chasing quality issues and trying to decide how to react to what everyone else is doing, our foreign competitors, like China, are gaining a stranglehold on the industry.
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I agree with the last comment except, psychologically, people don’t think trucks cost more. Trucks enjoy a subtle bait and switch, ads will show some truck at a low price of $35k with discounts and everything, but everyone ends up walking out with a $60k+ vehicle because who wants a 4x2 3 seat bench truck? Meanwhile, people have the price of a Tesla in their head when they think electric even though there are other, cheaper, options. People really don’t know how much they pay for their car either when it is done in payments as most trucks leases are advertised as weekly payment while Tesla usually advertises monthly payments.
Enough with the EV affordability nonsense. Full size trucks dominate sales in the US, and cost more than most EV's. People chose to afford the vehicles they want, even when that means they can't afford to save for retirement.
I can't wait till the Chinese EVs begin to sell in America. I will definitely buy a couple BYD, NIO, or XPENG for sure. 👍
@en+1jm3eengt - i suspect the point is, what are gonna buy when you can't find anything with a combustion engine, or when paying taxes for owning a ice vehicle make it nearly impossible to own? Thats what is happening here in the US, slowly, but surely. And stop with the whole, 'well, you don't have to purchase anything' argument, because its a disingenuous argument for the vast majority of Americans who live outside of a city. Don't kid yourself, one of the primary drivers behind the current success of EV's is government incentives and regulations.
And, you're right, the average person can't afford an EV, but when it's the only realistic option available, inexpensive will reign supreme.
The Chinese have been stealing our designs for decades. And stealing our technology, because they aren't creative. If they put the US automakers out of business, every vehicle made in China, will look the same for the next 20 years (or longer).
When you aren't innovating the Chinese market is done with you. Seems to be where Ford is at. Tesla is still ahead of them, therefore innovating. So Tesla has the leverage to stay because they have something the Chinese market still wants. Ford, Nissan, VW, GM? The Chinese market is losing patience with them fast and they will be pushed out if they don't come up with something. Ford and GM might still have time, but VW and Nissan are toast over there. Chinese engineering has excellent quality. Did they copy most of it from the USA? Absolutely they did. However, they iterate on it and improve on it and do an excellent job to the point Ford has to license the battery tech for their EV's back from them. Why did they get the reputation for making cheap junk in the 1st place? Because that's what Americans wanted, they complained but still continued to buy it. Should Americans demand higher quality they would have made it for a higher price but markets were addicted to the margins. With government subsidies it is easy for Xaomi, Cherry, BYD, and others to come in and eat a loss to sell cheap until they suffocate everyone else. Microsoft does the same thing. Oldest trick in the book.
Your underlying tone is interesting. I agree with some but:
The government can’t force someone to buy anything unless it is a full communist state. The average person can’t afford an EV.
@cs+1jm3eengt - i don't really think Fords quality is so good you can brag about it. I wouldn't own one if i didn't work for them. Chinese automobiles will be here soon enough, and when they are they will have passed the federal requirements to do so. You're deluded if you think the average driver will prioritize quality over cost if the savings is significant, and the warranty is comparable. If consumers are forced into an EV by government mandates, thats what many, if not most, will end up in. Besides, what offerings does Ford have, the lightning and mach e? Realistically, what else? Theres a reason why Walmart, dollar tree, aldies, and others are as popular as they are, even though quality is questionable. Amazon is selling Chinese products like crazy. We here at Ford, with offices and factories full of $100k/year employees seem to forget what the average worker can afford.
@cs+1jm3eengt That’s a strange hill for Ford to stand on given Ford’s poor NHTSA performance on vehicles where physics doesn’t remove the majority of the engineering effort (large vehicles). Looking at small to midsize vehicles NHTSA top safety picks have the same players Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Subaru and their derivatives. Not too many years ago Fordites were sneering at and smearing each of these companies with an air of superiority; but look at where they are now.
Ford chose to spend money on lobbyists, attorneys, marketing, fantasy projects and bloated bureaucracy instead of focusing on reliability, safety and affordability; the pillars that customers consistently want. The results are on display for all to see.
Has a single one of those amazing flame throwers (just type BYD fires in Youtube) passed a single NHTSA/FMVSS certification test? What was their crash rating from the Insurance Institute? I'd be astonished if they even follow SAE standards for cable sizes. If you get in a minor fender bender, who is going to tell you your amazing Chinese battery pack is good and you don't have to worry about a melt down next week? Not to kick the horse one more time, but I will. Water intrusion ok? Pack holds up under salt water spray test? Or will a few years on our Michigan roads rust the shielding and oopsie, pyrotechnics?
This is getting old.
More people would buy our product if the quality perception was improved. Why do people pay a premium for iPhone when there are plenty of Android alternatives on the market from South Korean companies? Because Apple’s product offering is carefully planed and executed. We lost that ability as a company with all these ego trips that are in leadership. Always having to leave their mark on the product as opposed to let the product be organically developed by experts who can work together. The botched launches and poor quality is leadership injecting their poison in the process: last minute changes, a vision that they can’t let go of even though it makes no sense. Toyota continues to chug along consistently, respecting their engineering workforce. They are not setting the world on fire, but they don’t have to. Customers deep down don’t care about stuff like blue cruise, OTA, EVs. They just want a hassle free vehicle that is not ugly. You can make the prettiest car ever, but if it’s reliability su-ks, it won’t matter.
Is that the benchmarking center by the test lab with %75 Indian people and 2 Americans with attitude issues? It's a bit ironic if you think about it.
Farley is a buffoon and a clown. I'd say he knows his days are limited but he's fortunate enough that Bill is even more incompetent than he is apparently. For the life of me I can't understand how these people are still running the company. B is there not anyone in that family who realizes how much of a po-p show this place is.
Chinese products are completely subsidized by the CCP. All Ford facilities are half owned by CCP. All these American companies were fools for working with the Chicoms. We basically tooled them up and accelerated their manufacturing knowledge.
All Fartley had to do was follow the Toyota business model. Quality and design for manufacturing along with ICE and hybrids. May be too late to save Ford at this point.
Unfortunately the only approach our government can think of to fighting back is demonizing and barring Chinese EVs. But that won't save Ford, because Ford sells vehicles globally. After all, Ford still needs to compete in the global market.
Domestically Ford is losing to Japanese automakers and GM. Globally Ford is losing to Chinese automakers. Ford should really rethink its strategy and strengthen what consumers care about: quality, safety, and affordability.
Otherwise, with or without Chinese EVs, Ford is collapsing either way.