Middle managers should be able to manage twenty to thirty employees. Ten employees were circa 1990 before Office 365, laptops, and cell phones existed.
Bottom line is that middle management needs to shrink by 50% if they only have ten direct reports.~~ @rav+1lC6LYyr
This is obvious. But will it finally happen? Will there finally be a significant reduction of useless middle mgmt?
This is hand in hand with the great lie of the PDS and how work is actually accounted for. It’s culture now with the latest “zoom” power points so forth . People rotate without really qualifying their work and middle management nods and moves on. As the one butthurt EMiT manager said about HCL , let it fail. Something’s need to bottom out before it gets resolved. Kind of like the country.
@1enr...yes some of us would jump at the chance to manage. Maybe overall it will be better than the current slate of yes people in current roles. I would guess it would not be any worse than it is. To me, I think a situation where there are too many middle managers with too few direct reports, who emphasize thier own careers instead of the actualy job of developing thier reports, is detrimental to the company.
Sour grapes. A bunch of people on here who would jump at the opportunity for a promotion if they were offered one.
I get it. Your supervisor is the "face" of the assessment system. Your hate is misdirected. Try smiling more.
So needs to happen in EMTEC, Especially Annandale more of these middle managers need to be moved back to individual contributors, back to technical roles, way to heavy in management, with a low direct report number, lots of opportunity to here ,do we really need a PHD as a department head? Dumpster fire here🔥 something has to gives soon!!
@aed Yes, I do think that companies (EM especially) have highly redundant bureaucracies, and this redundancy culminates in having managers on the payroll who add little to zero value in proportion to their compensation.
There are managers with no direct reports. There are managers with fewer than five direct reports who have overlapping business functions with other teams that are similarly structured. In many meetings, managers outnumber contributors. Contributors often have to manage upward and balance conflicting demands from managers with overlapping domains, leading to drops in productivity and the extension of deadlines. Make it make sense.
Get rid of the yes men and azz kissers? Never! Top Dogs need their entourage!
A good middle manager should be spending most of their time
If they do this, keep them. If they don’t, then don’t
@btf+1lD5XV7m You think that if Middle Management didn't add value and wasn't necessary they wouldn't be there? What company in their right mind would keep people on the payroll that aren't necessary. Last time I looked ExxonMobil was very much a business and not a charity. They are pretty ruthless at cutting anyone who isn't necessary.
They are doing the job they were asked to do. Just like you are. "These people" sheesh. These people are just like you.
@ebj Last time I checked, managers don’t do much of anything.
Whenever I check their status, they’re always lit up in red and in a call. How many hours of “strategic conversations” can you meaningfully have during the course of a day? Meanwhile, the same managers are picking contributors who actually do the work to get PIPed/laid-off and dumping their work on the remaining contributors, all without better pay or benefits.
Please explain why we should feel anything for these people.
It’s been time to shrink middle (mettle?) management for about 20 years.
According to ADP, these glorified cretins account for ~33% of payroll in the US. That’s 1/3 of all labor costs for employers across all industries. That’s a lot of money to be spending on people who forward emails, call and sit for pointless meetings, and delegate the most important parts of their job to the nearest contributor.
Most functions of middle management can be replaced with software, and they probably will be soon. All I need from my manager is to approve my PTO. He can’t provide any coaching or guidance because he has no clue what he’s doing and wasn’t qualified for his role to begin with.
Managers only produce unnecessary, calendar blocking, meetings. No value whatsoever....or...let me guess.... The latest contribution is to generate a PIP list. No value.
I think the problem is that the best individual contributors are promoted to managers. Everyone wants to be a manager rather than a great individual contributor as that is the way to succeed. We need to have a true technical ladder. The high performers quickly figure out there is no technical ladder and being a great individual contributor is not rewarded so they switch over to the managerial ladder. The gifted indificual contributors rather than focusing on what they are great at build a team.
I'd welcome a smaller team size for my manager so they can focus more on fostering talent.
https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/people-and-organizational-performance/our-insights/stop-wasting-your-most-precious-resource-middle-managers
Tech companies like Meta and Twitter are laying off middle managers and "flattening" their structure. That's going to cost them in the long run.
https://www.businessinsider.com/middle-managers-great-flattening-organization-meta-tech-layoffs-firing-2023-3
Disagree. If you think managers should manage 20-30 employees and just send emails and text messages you don't understand what a manager does.
Said the individual contributor
Trust me the most toxic one is constrained to Baton Rouge. She’s a true chameleon
The amount of Mangement at the O&A Chemical plant in Beaumont is Ridiculous! This site has made up positions for the "Good -O- Boys" and the sponsored ones. What is not a made-up job is filled with Toxic Managers from Baton Rouge. A 50% reduction at this lever would be a blessing and the place would run so much smoother. Less stress for ALL! and who knows we may get our work life balance back.